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Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by islovin, May 12, 2010.

  1. islovin

    islovin Member

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    I have just begun level 3. I have given each level 2 months so I have been using lifeflow for a little over a year and I am AMAZED at how wonderful I feel. I believe level 3 is the first level of Delta and I am having such deep meditations. Really very satisfying.

    I am also doing other work on myself. The personal growth work that I do is being accelerated by my meditation practice. The reason my meditation practice accelerates my personal growth is because I am able to observe my mind, my thoughts and my behaviors. I now take full responsiblity for everything in my life. My meditation has allowed me to see exactly how I create the results I get in my life.

    My quality of life has improved significantly. My number one priority and the thing that I value most in my life is "peace of mind". I feel that I have acheived this in most areas of my life. This is an ongoing lifelong process...a process I am dedicated to and thoroughly enjoy.

    Here is my dilema....

    While my personal world is changing for the better and I am experiencing a happy peaceful life, I can also see how others create the results they get. I find it hard to listen to other peoples "drama". I know that there is nothing I can say or do for them and I know even if I did offer my advice it would not be well received and I would probably just sound "preachy".

    SO How do I stay compassionate and tolerant and not tell them that they brought this on themselves when I know that is not what they want to hear?

    Even if I don't bring up the fact that they probably brought the situation on themselves and I try to allow them to see another side to their drama...that too would not be well received. I guess i still need to learn to "JUST LISTEN" and let people be where they are right now and know that it is not up to me to get them to "see" anything. I find it so hard to stay unattached and at the same time be compassionate and tolerant.

    Also, most people do not and will not ever do the work that I have done...so how do I NOT abandon people that I love and want in my life even if they are overly dramatic.

    Any advice?
     
  2. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    Be Present around them. Presence tends to propagate its own species, and the proverbial "drama queen" mentality doesn't exist well in the presence of Presence. It needs the catastrophies recalled from the past and the angst about the future in order to thrive, and Presence doesn't supply it either one.

    The example your life provides others is a tool for conversion, if you'd like to call it that, which has no equal. You don't have to be pushy. Those who are ready will see and feel something in you and gravitate towards it like a moth to the candle.

    Those who aren't ready will likely continue on in drama queen fashion, oblivious. That's alright. Love them in spite of themselves. Perhaps when no one else around them can stand listening to their perpetual soap opera lives anymore but you, they'll get curious as to why that is and through that curiosity become more open to change themselves.

    In the end it's not your job to change them. Work on yourself and let the rest fall into place naturally.
     
  3. islovin

    islovin Member

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    Ta-tsu-wa...

    It is me that can't stand listening to their perpetual soap opera. I want to be there for them and I want to learn how to just listen and be totally present without judgement and without preaching. AND be compassionate and tolerant of someone who can't see how they have created the mess they want to blame on someone else. I think what happens is they want me to agree with their perception of the situation. Most situations are not just one sided...and I tend to call it like I see it, which is not what they want to hear.

    My problem is i do love them in spite of themselves but only want to be around them when they are fully present. I don't want to be there during these big drama's where no one wants to take responsiblity for the situation getting so out of hand.

    I guess i feel if I can just listen then I won't be a "fair weathered" friend.

    Maybe it is that I fear losing the friendship.
     
  4. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    Ah, welcome to the proverbial world of being a man. We men are charged (and rightfully so most of the time,) with not being able to listen empathetically without having to suggest the ways something can be resolved or fixed. Notice I'm indulging in exactly this tendency right now, so it looks like I stand guilty as charged.

    I have to go back to my previous response on this one. Be Present. The attributes of compassion, being non-judgemental, patience, and so forth, are part and parcel of Presence. When we're fully Present we don't have to add those things into the equation, they're just naturally there.

    If you're feeling, for example, judgemental while listening to someone's tale, it's not that you're Present but still not getting the judgement thing right. You're simply not fully Present. If you were the judgement thing would already have taken care of itself. If you're feeling intolerant, it's not that you're Present and just not getting the whole tolerance thing quite right. You're not fully Present. Intolerance, by its very nature, is a function of discerning between things while making value distinctions as to what is good vs. bad, desireable vs. detestable, and so forth. Presence doesn't promote this sort of critical evaluation. It observes, takes in, and accepts, without attaching valuations and distinctions to the objects of its perceptions.

    Don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for applying discernment and value-based distinctions. The point at which you're engaging this person and they're spewing out their drama is probably not that time. You can engage yourself with those things at a later time if it appears warranted.

    You simplify your task of displaying all the noble attributes you cited by just focusing on personifying Presence to the greatest degree possible. If you do that those other things naturally fall into line on their own. You don't have to add them seperately into the mix after establishing Presence.

    Disagreeing with someone does not make us fair weather friends, by the way. A friend who is incapable of helping us see past our own blind spots because they're too busy making sure never to say anything but words of agreement is a friend we could probably do without.
     
  5. islovin

    islovin Member

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    You are right ta tsu wa...

    If I am thinking of the next thing I want to say...such as what advice to give then I am not listening and I am not being Present.

    And being present is all they really want from me.
     
  6. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    I suspect they want more than just your Presence. Drama queens live for validation. What they really need is your Presence, but what they actually want is the validation.

    I think it's great that you want to help coax them out of drama queen mode. That's a very pointless and unproductive way to live a life. It's just that at the moment they are eyeball deep in rehearsing their latest drama to you it's unlikely any practical counsel you could offer them would cut through the drama haze to impact them at all. But often the feeling of your profound Presence will touch them somewhere deep inside and open them up to hearing the practical advice you'd like them to have.
     
  7. pita2389

    pita2389 Member

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    Some people just love/need drama. They may say they don't...but when they keep making decisions that put or keep them in the center of drama...there isn't really much you can do.

    I have lived this experience. I had a friend who was always in drama. And not just drama that is annoying but drama that was physically harming. She pulled herself out of it...but, after a certain amount of time, put herself right back in the middle. I truly believe she missed it. After 30 years, I just had to step back and let it be. I was the one losing sleep for her, trying to help her, but then I had a moment of clarity and realized that some people just need drama. :(
     
  8. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Hi islovin,

    (Sorry i´ve just read your post and not the answers)

    Good to see you asking a question, sometimes i feel a little alone with that here *lol* :)

    Even if my mind is maybe not that calmed as yours already, and im probably more identified with my daily drama, i can also see how much other people are involved into their drama. When i see this, a feeling of compassion arises within me, its like i want to hug this person, and its a very positive feeling.

    I think its a "let go" thing. Let everyone experience their own responsibility for their life, but lend a hand when needed. And as Edwin once said, you´re the best teacher if you say nothing, but people recognize you because you "are" that what you want to teach. And then maybe, that will help them to realize how to take this step out of their drama.
     
  9. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

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    Mini thread hijack...

    Hi Pan,

    I just wanted to post a couple of words on your initial comment. I’ve been meaning to say for a while that I appreciate your curiosity/questioning even though I haven’t mentioned it up to now. I’m sure others using this forum feel the same, having no doubt also benefitted from your journey. You’ve certainly opened up discussions with other forum members that have been very interesting :)

    Sorry for this brief thread hijack, islovin.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  10. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Thanks Mr.Monkey, im glad we´re not all the same, otherwise the forum would be hyperactive *lol*
     
  11. olmate

    olmate Member

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    Hi islovin,

    Be gentle with yourself. You are in a special place - i.e. you are noticing. Seeing the drama and seeing the feeling inside of yourself in response to the drama is good.

    Your enquiring mind on why and how is great. Lots of open questions to yourself and where appropriate to the Kings and Queens of Drama also helps in my experience. Particulalry if the questions are framed within a cradle of compassion.

    I like imagery, so one practice that helps me is to visualise the question cupped in my hands, with a gentle loving gaze over the question. The final context is a smile. I find the most intense drama most often just melts away.

    Your friends are blessed.

    Nothing but the best...

    Olmate.
     
  12. islovin

    islovin Member

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    Pan,

    I thank you for saying so as I know you mean it as a compliment but I am not so sure that my mind is any calmer then yours. Your response to my question is dead on. and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to answer.

    Letting others take responsibility for their life...I love this answer. It is true...and sometimes this is an easier task then at other times. It depends on whether their drama effects my life. But the truth is .... none of their drama effects my life..... if I don't let it. Meaning...just as you suggest...Let them take responsibility for their life.... I too must take responsibility for my life. So if I am being effected by their drama ... something in my life still needs healing.

    Thanks for your well thought out response I appreciate it.

    Irene
     

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