Can someone explain this quote?

[CatB]

I am confused by this quote, as I was under the impression that meditation was going beyond the mind, getting outside your mind/head to your real self, which is not your mind and your thoughts. I would appreciate some of your impressions of what is meant by the quote below:

"The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included. It's like the root of a tree. All a tree's fruit and flowers, branches and leaves depend on its root. If you nourish its root, a tree multiplies. If you cut its root, it dies. Those who understand the mind reach enlightenment with minimal effort. Those who don't understand the mind practice in vain. Everything good and bad comes from your own mind. To find something beyond the mind is impossible.

- Bodhidharma, from The Zen Teachings of Bodhidharma, trans. by Red Pine. (1987) North Point Press, NY."

I look forward to your replies.

Much thanks,
Cat

[Bryan555]

Well, CatB, I think you've opened up a whole flood of "philosophizing", hereabouts. But it seems clear the "mind", in this text, refers to everything that's not physical.

There may well be a "real self", as you say. But without a mind, some mental capacity, you have no tool with which to experience it. Not here on Earth anyway; not as a human being.

The human mind can be trained to still itself absolutely, to become a clear pool, with a surface like a sheet of glass. The "Self" -- or anything within or beyond the imagination -- are all reflected there.

That, I think, is the meaning of: "To find something beyond the mind is impossible."

Others, inevitably, will have different interpretations.

[MetaCognition]

I think Bryan nailed it on the head. No matter how much talk there is of a true self or something beyond the mind, all that exists (in our human perceptual forms, anything beyond that cannot be discussed in any coherent manner) comes from and is interpreted by the mind. No way around it, which is sometimes disappointing to people starting out with meditation and this way of life. That is, until they realize, that disappointment is just coming from the mind...and so is the desire to overcome and accept that disappointment.

[brozen]

This is my understanding of the quote.

think of the mind as the root/base
think of thought processes (personality/ego) as branches and stems
think of the thoughts as the leaves and fruits

The aim of meditation is to return to the root and let all the rest just be as it is.

Although I don't really know how to interpret the cutting of the root leading to its death. Unless in this situation Death is stillness and Nourishment leads to clouded mind with distractions. This seems a little odd though.

Just my opinion. Thanks for providing the quote, hope that gives you some more understanding.

[Hazelkay]

If 'mind' is regarded as a subset of the brain and/or body, then it has obvious limitations.

If it is regarded as non-localised consciousness and the individual body/brain is merely a receiver and transmitter it is easier for me to understand the quote.

If the receiver/transmitter is working optimally, well-maintained, with absolutely clear channels it will receive and transmit without distortion. If there are faults, then the individual expression of this 'mind' is not of the pure waves that are there to be received but some individual distortion.

So if your own mind is in complete harmony with 'mind' they are the same.

peace and joy

[CatB]

These are all great replies, thank you.

so it appears that "escaping" the mind, if you will, is never an option, rather the opportunity to quiet and still the ever-active mind and having moments of dwelling in stillness is the only realistic "goal", as human beings?

And if you are able to increase those moments of stillness, is that considered progress in your meditation practice?

[MetaCognition]

The only progress you should be trying to look for is a general appreciation for every moment of your life, and an awareness that it is transient and fleeting.

My suggestion to you and many others that come asking similar questions (as I did when I first started out) is to not look for things to cross off the list of “progress“ in terms of meditation. I know it is normal to want to feel like we are accomplishing something when we put energy, time, and effort into an activity, but only once you let go of trying to get something can you really progress from this process.

As they say, “Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.” There is nothing to learn here, and that is exactly what you will learn

[Michael David]

Eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich along with a glass of cold milk is a lot different than eating each of those items in sequence one after the other.

Progress in meditation for me is remembering more and more often that I am perceiving life as separate events and that I can shift to a more body/mind/spirit integration.

While in the middle of any activity at times I can be at ease being aware of both the specific detail as well as the big picture. Aware of both the individual wave as well as the ocean. Along with this is a feeling of satisfied joy. At times when I am seeing only the wave or only the big picture the joy is not there. Meditation integrates the two and acts as a reminder that eventhough I may not be feeling it now I have experienced both together. By spending time in meditation the echo of experiencing both the wave and ocean together increases.

Michael

[CatB]

Originally Posted by MetaCognition

The only progress you should be trying to look for is a general appreciation for every moment of your life, and an awareness that it is transient and fleeting.

My suggestion to you and many others that come asking similar questions (as I did when I first started out) is to not look for things to cross off the list of “progress“ in terms of meditation. I know it is normal to want to feel like we are accomplishing something when we put energy, time, and effort into an activity, but only once you let go of trying to get something can you really progress from this process.

As they say, “Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.” There is nothing to learn here, and that is exactly what you will learn

This is an interesting reply, thank you. I think you are right - clearly, I am a beginner in this process, and i think that "newbies" tend to want to feel something or see something so that they can have something tangible fuel their continued commitment to daily sitting. I know this attitude or approach is more detrimental than anything. I try to come to each sitting with no expectations, to just be there and not resist or persist. Not easy, esp. as a beginner.

Since you mention that you, too, as a beginner, experienced this mindset, what is it that helped you leave it behind and be more realistic about what this was all about?

[MetaCognition]

I feel like it is inevitable to look for those results at the start, so the only thing I can say that helps clear up the process is repeated practice. Only through repetition can you see how your mind tries to cling to the idea of meditation as new form of expression and identification, rather than as a time to just let information and emotion flow through you and arise on their own.

Once you stop trying to control meditation or wondering whether or not you are doing it right or wrong, if it is working or not working, etc, that is when it begins to really work. It was a circular process for me, where I had a few months of heavy meditation and extreme positivity due to my new found hobby. Then interest started to wane, I moved away and quickly fell into old patterns and destructive behaviors.

When I returned this time, I could see the process in an entirely new way. I was no longer trying to get something, I am now just letting it flow through me (or as some would say here, recognizing that it always was flowing through me). The journey never ends, and that is the beauty of it all.