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Old May 19th, 2011, 05:47   #1 (permalink)
Karmoh (Offline)
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Default Spiritual Ego

These are some of the questions (inquiries) that crop up while I go through oscillation, wavering between true clarity, spiritual ego and original the ďMarkĒ ego

Is it good that ďIĒ have noticed the spiritual ego? Or is the original ego still playing a cunning game?

Itís true that there is a massive difference between having a theoretical understanding of oneness and living that reality moment by moment. With just a little spiritual reading, the ego tends to get stuck. Our intellect finds spiritual concepts stimulating. Hence our new spiritual ego is born.

My spiritual ego on a normal level believes it knows something, or it believes it lacks something. But is there such a thing as more or less spiritual. Is there only spirit?

Is it my spiritual ego that sets out to debate and post on this forum with others about spirituality in order to confirm its uniqueness, understanding or superiority?

Many understand the drop merging into the ocean but few understand the ocean merging into the drop. Ė Kabir

Does Kabir mean, you know you are identified with the concept of Oneness, rather than living as the reality of it?

Is the spiritual (ego) mind simply a part of a fragmented ďmark egoĒ? and as a fragment the spiritual ego cannot see the whole. It is only interested in maintaining itself.


Peace
 
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Old May 19th, 2011, 10:39   #2 (permalink)
Edwin (Offline)
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Interesting point, and actually quite good to occasionally look into.

The way I see it, the moment you realise who you really are, ego loses credibility, and you realise that ego in fact doesn't exist.
However, even tho the ego in itself doesn't exist, they are rather thoughts turned into convictions, and these are still there as... I kind of think of them as little programs running in the background.

These convictions, these thoughts will react towards a new situation based upon the past. Of course we always have to look at the past in order to find the knowledge for the best reaction, but that doesn't mean that the reaction towards a similar situation in the past can be used in the exact same way for the situation you are facing now.
The past is a recource, but consciously looking at the situation Now will make clear that there are slight variations, and when ignoring them you will display behaviour of a conditioned mind. A cramped up human.

For instance: I had a bully at school who liked picking on me, as I was small for my age. I always reacted in the same way to him, I got scared, tried to get away from him, find a safe spot.
Since I always reacted like this, the pattern was integrated into my sub-conscious mind. Every time I spotted him, like for instance in a mall or the street, I instantly felt fear and the urge to get away.
Until one time, and still I don't know why, I saw him coming towards me, confident I would run away again, and I decided to stay there and face him.
The conditioning to run was still screaming it's head off in the back of my mind, but I stood my ground.
Instead, I put on my most adult face and behaviour and calmly asked him why he was always picking on me. Didn't he realise that his behaviour was hurting me ? Did he really feel better doing this to me ?
This startled him, both because I didn't react the way he expected, but also because he felt ashamed. He actually started to cry !
We never became friends, but later on I found out that he had some conditioning of his own to deal with, his behaviour being a reaction to an abusive father.
But the problem was solved, he never picked on me again.

Like in the example, it can be good to watch your behaviour, and see how cunningly some of these pre-programmed reactions can manifest themselves.

Once you see them, you see through them, and they disappear.
Over time, your connection to the Now will improve, and thoughts will lose their power over you, while your power over your thoughts will increase.
They will become a tool to your benefit.
It's like having a dog that you don't control. The dog will think it is your "pack leader" because you have no control over him.
And then "the dog whisperer" comes along, and he shows you what you have done wrong, and suddenly you are pack leader, and the dog listens to you and accepts you as pack leader

About the spiritual ego:
A spiritual ego is maybe man's biggest crime against his own Self.
From this comes the idea that you can be "more spiritual than the other" whatever that means, or that you are "further upon the path" .

However I am convinced that Self-realized people will recognise this behaviour, with others but also with themselves, and realise it is folly, because you realise that that which is looking, your true Self has always been looking, and self-realization means no difference to your true Self. All people are a manifestation of your true Self. Even if they don't realise it. So why feel better then them, if they are You as well ? That doesn't even make sense !
Gives a whole new meaning to Jesus saying "Love thy neighbour as thySelf" right ?

Many understand the drop merging into the ocean but few understand the ocean merging into the drop. Ė Kabir

Does Kabir mean, you know you are identified with the concept of Oneness, rather than living as the reality of it?

Is the spiritual (ego) mind simply a part of a fragmented ďmark egoĒ? and as a fragment the spiritual ego cannot see the whole. It is only interested in maintaining itself.
There is a huge difference between mind telling you that you are Oneness, and experiencing it.
The experience is not a product of mind, a trick or something, as the Oneness can be felt and experienced as deep profound Love, the one emotion that can't be simulated by the brain ( I am not talking about the feeling of "falling in love" which is hormone-based ).

You experience the sensations of the drop, but at the same time also the sensation of being the ocean, to use the same analogy.
There is no denying that one drop is seperated from another, but both are inseperately water. When they touch, they merge, and the drop doesn't exist anymore... And the ocean, is that the ocean or a HUGE drop ? When all water from the ocean evaporates, you don't have a dry ocean, you have a desert. Does the ocean exist ?

Something like that.

But anyway, you learn to recognise this with others who have seen this truth, and you have nothing to worry about Karmoh

Just stop thinking about it
 
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Old May 19th, 2011, 12:44   #3 (permalink)
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Gidday Karmoh, and Edwin, I think it relates to the Ďcanít fool your Selfí bit. A part of us always knows the Truth, our real motivation. And thatís the most important bit. We might make mistakes, but we always have the choice to discern, or choose. Surrender used to bother me heaps, until I realised itís the most empowering thing we can do. Now itís easy to see why many cultures worship the sun, and to understand the power in that line in the Gayathri Mantra,
Ďtat savitur varenyumí
The sun gives love, life everywhere, without question, regardless of whether I throw rocks at it, curse it, worship it, ignore it, am unaware of it, am in its shadow, its always no more or less the sun, shining away, being the sun.
We can choose that, to just surrender to what we know of our Truth, and what we donít know about it. I know our Truth loves you equal to me, and that it knows the best way to do that, even if I presently donít, or arenít in a state to. So, the best I can do, is sincerely ask for that, every instant. When I meditate, l choose to be like the sun, except that I surrender to Truth, the real me, saturating me, and shine Truth everywhere, and contemplate that.
That might not always happen, well it doesnít always happen, but we know when we are losing that focus, our Truth. I know that when I want a discount 40Ē LCD, that my neighbour suffers. I know when I fool myself that thatís okÖ because God loves me and wants abundance for me. I believe that God wants abundance for us all, but I donít embody it when I allow, or donít feel empathy with, a third world person, or just the cleaner down the road working for peanuts. When I blame politicians.
Posting is a classic. It takes a lot of care to do it well. Sometimes I think, donít post, its just me blabbering, trying to prove something, sometimes I think, donít post, theyíll just think you are a deluded trouble maker, talking rubbish. But, if the urge is strong enough, and the intention good, (and we always know the Truth about our intentions), then fear shouldnít stop you.
We can always, absolutely anyone can always aim for perfection, for God, our Truth. And the beauty of Oneness is, that how good a shot you are doesnít really matter, Perfection knows you are sincerely aiming, and thatís the great equaliser. Then the Truth knows just what to do, perfectly.
So, after all that blabbering, like Edwin says, no need to worry about much Karmoh, only the target you choose to focus on, and how sincere and constant that focus is. Babies donít care how much they stumble, or crawl, or whoís thinking what, they just have this true, overpowering urge to walk, so eventually they do. And good parents are always watching, and helping.
 
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Old May 19th, 2011, 12:50   #4 (permalink)
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Gidday Karmoh, and Edwin, I think it relates to the Ďcanít fool your Selfí bit. A part of us always knows the Truth, our real motivation. And thatís the most important bit. We might make mistakes, but we always have the choice to discern, or choose. Surrender used to bother me heaps, until I realised itís the most empowering thing we can do. Now itís easy to see why many cultures worship the sun, and to understand the power in that line in the Gayathri Mantra,
Ďtat savitur varenyumí
The sun gives love, life everywhere, without question, regardless of whether I throw rocks at it, curse it, worship it, ignore it, am unaware of it, am in its shadow, its always no more or less the sun, shining away, being the sun.
We can choose that, to just surrender to what we know of our Truth, and what we donít know about it. I know our Truth loves you equal to me, and that it knows the best way to do that, even if I presently donít, or arenít in a state to. So, the best I can do, is sincerely ask for that, every instant. When I meditate, l choose to be like the sun, except that I surrender to Truth, the real me, saturating me, and shine Truth everywhere, and contemplate that.
That might not always happen, well it doesnít always happen, but we know when we are losing that focus, our Truth. I know that when I want a discount 40Ē LCD, that my neighbour suffers. I know when I fool myself that thatís okÖ because God loves me and wants abundance for me. I believe that God wants abundance for us all, but I donít embody it when I allow, or donít feel empathy with, a third world person, or just the cleaner down the road working for peanuts. When I blame politicians.
Posting is a classic. It takes a lot of care to do it well. Sometimes I think, donít post, its just me blabbering, trying to prove something, sometimes I think, donít post, theyíll just think you are a deluded trouble maker, talking rubbish. But, if the urge is strong enough, and the intention good, (and we always know the Truth about our intentions), then fear shouldnít stop you.
We can always, absolutely anyone can always aim for perfection, for God, our Truth. And the beauty of Oneness is, that how good a shot you are doesnít really matter, Perfection knows you are sincerely aiming, and thatís the great equaliser. Then the Truth knows just what to do, perfectly.
So, after all that blabbering, like Edwin says, no need to worry about much Karmoh, only the target you choose to focus on, and how sincere and constant that focus is. Babies donít care how much they stumble, or crawl, or whoís thinking what, they just have this true, overpowering urge to walk, so eventually they do. And good parents are always watching, and helping.
 
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Old May 19th, 2011, 12:58   #5 (permalink)
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Gidday Karmoh, and Edwin, I think it relates to the Ďcanít fool your Selfí bit. A part of us always knows the Truth, our real motivation. And thatís the most important bit. We might make mistakes, but we always have the choice to discern, or choose. Surrender used to bother me heaps, until I realised itís the most empowering thing we can do. Now itís easy to see why many cultures worship the sun, and to understand the power in that line in the Gayathri Mantra,

Ďtat savitur varenyumí

The sun gives love, life everywhere, without question, regardless of whether I throw rocks at it, curse it, worship it, ignore it, am unaware of it, am in its shadow, its always no more or less the sun, shining away, being the sun.
We can choose that, to just surrender to what we know of our Truth, and what we donít know about it. I know our Truth loves you equal to me, and that it knows the best way to do that, even if I presently donít, or arenít in a state to. So, the best I can do, is sincerely ask for that, every instant. When I meditate, l choose to be like the sun, except that I surrender to Truth, the real me, saturating me, and shine Truth everywhere, and contemplate that.
That might not always happen, well it doesnít always happen, but we know when we are losing that focus, our Truth. I know that when I want a discount 40Ē LCD, that my neighbour suffers. I know when I fool myself that thatís okÖ because God loves me and wants abundance for me. I believe that God wants abundance for us all, but I donít embody it when I allow, or donít feel empathy with, a third world person, or just the cleaner down the road to work for peanuts. Or when I blame politicians.

Posting is a classic. It takes a lot of care to do it well. Sometimes I think, donít post, its just me blabbering, trying to prove something, sometimes I think, donít post, theyíll just think you are a deluded trouble maker, talking rubbish. But, if the urge is strong enough, and the intention good, (and we always know the Truth about our intentions), then fear shouldnít stop you.
We can always, absolutely anyone can always aim for perfection, for God, our Truth. And the beauty of Oneness is, that how good a shot you are doesnít really matter, Perfection knows you are sincerely aiming, and thatís the great equaliser. Then the Truth knows just what to do, perfectly.

So, after all that blabbering, like Edwin says, no need to worry about much Karmoh, only the target you choose to focus on, and how sincere and constant that focus is. Babies donít care how much they stumble, or crawl, or whoís thinking what, they just have this true, overpowering urge to walk, so eventually they do. And good parents are always watching, and helping.
 
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Old May 19th, 2011, 15:03   #6 (permalink)
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I think the forums own ego has kicked in there, liking Uplifts post so much it repeated it 3 times. LOL!

Karmoh,

In vedic teaching the ego is referred to as Ahankara. Ahan (or Aham when used as a single word) refers to the True Self or unchanging observer. Kara is anything in 'creation', which could be something physical, but can also refer to things of the mind, or emotions etc. essentially, anything that can be conceived/percieved by us. So, essentially, when the True Self becomes attached to anything in creation, it creates Ahankara, ... the ego.

We all have ego (anybody who says they are free of ego doesn't understand ego), but we don't have to look on it as a bad thing. Without ego we would simply be Ahan, the True Self, or complete awareness; it is the ego that allows us to be here and live these lives we do, and perceive the universe in the way we do. (and before Uplift says it, yes, the ego is part of the Oneness, so we can safely use that as proof that it is our True Self/Awareness/One Consciousness that creates the Universe).

Although we can argue that we already have all knowledge, we also know that in this 'human form' we are often not conscious of it. So having the ego allows us, as humans, to attach to information and learn it. Now we can let the ego manifest through the mind and go about life making out that we are somehow more special than others because we have learnt all this information and that is where, sociologically, the ego is seen as a bad thing. However, if we put the information into practice, and we find the information to be true in our own experience, then we can turn that information into knowledge. Once information truly becomes knowledge, the minds ego is discarded, and we simply have natural (spiritual) ego connecting our Self to that knowledge (in essence we have removed the coverings that was hiding that knowledge from our conscious so the spiritual ego doesn't really exist).

In answer to your question "is there such a thing as more or less spiritual. Is there only spirit?"... I would answer that there is only the One awareness/consciousness. The ego mind can certainly play the game of "I'm more spiritual than you" (and boy have I met some of those people! ), but in truth when you consider non-duality, there cannot possibly be any one that differs from other, because there is no "other".

Hugs

Giles
 
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Old May 19th, 2011, 21:39   #7 (permalink)
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Still, reading what Uplift wrote, I see no reason why it shouldn't be posted 3 times
 
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Old May 20th, 2011, 00:13   #8 (permalink)
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About the spiritual ego:
A spiritual ego is maybe man's biggest crime against his own Self.
From this comes the idea that you can be "more spiritual than the other" whatever that means, or that you are "further upon the path"
Edwin,
Ah! It is a weapon of separation. No belief system can be created from open spiritual insight. Its only an ego which would ever try to carry an insight forward, believing in the dream, intent on identifying with a particular idea in order to separate itself from the illusory others who donít get it or donít believe it.


So, after all that blabbering, like Edwin says, no need to worry about much Karmoh, only the target you choose to focus on, and how sincere and constant that focus is. Babies donít care how much they stumble, or crawl, or whoís thinking what, they just have this true, overpowering urge to walk, so eventually they do. And good parents are always watching, and helping.
Uplift,
No, not blabbering, insightful yes, true insight is constantly revealing that all is one and therefore that separations are false. You can only find your true-self when you stop looking for ďitĒ and stop trying to convince yourself and others that the true-self does or does not exist, or that you have found ďitĒ or will find ďitĒ You realize that ďitĒ is only ever here, right here, in this moment.

In answer to your question "is there such a thing as more or less spiritual. Is there only spirit?"... I would answer that there is only the One awareness/consciousness. The ego mind can certainly play the game of "I'm more spiritual than you" (and boy have I met some of those people! ), but in truth when you consider non-duality, there cannot possibly be any one that differs from other, because there is no "other".
Giles,
So, the spiritual search ends when it is realized that you could not possibly improve upon this unchangeable spirit within you. The only thing that would ever measure spiritual development is a temporary thought moving through this spirit. Which in Karmoh speak is awareness

Three wonderfully different responses saying the same thing, how amazing words would be if they existed



Peace
 
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Old May 20th, 2011, 00:41   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Uplift View Post

... We can choose ... to just surrender to what we know of our Truth, and what we donít know about it. I know our Truth loves you equal to me, and that it knows the best way to do that, even if I presently donít, or arenít in a state to. So, the best I can do, is sincerely ask for that, every instant. When I meditate, l choose to be like the sun, except that I surrender to Truth, the real me, saturating me, and shine Truth everywhere, and contemplate that.
Thanks to Karmoh and all for this thread, and I especially appreciate the quote above from Uplift. All best, Margaret
 
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Old May 20th, 2011, 15:40   #10 (permalink)
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After reading such a wonderful review of nothing being something at the same time I am wordless. So I would like to submit an image.

A waterfall.

Similar to the sun shining equally on all, the water of the waterfall flows continually over it's edge. Imagine the water above the fall to be the non-dual ocean. As the water goes over the fall the drops (in free fall) start to separate and appear to be individual drops (our life ) or (our ego part). As the drop returns to the water at the bottom of the falls it merges back to oneness.

Is the water in its drop form any different than in its merged form or is it only the view? As a drop it can "see" other drops (itself) Looking back toward the top of the falls the water holds together in sheets and then stretches as much as it can until individual drops are formed. The empty space between the drops is what the drops fall back into at the bottom of the falls. Back into Itself or falling in Love.

Michael
 
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