Awareness while sleeping?

[Midnight]

Hey everyone, how are you all doing?

So recently, curiosity has appeared again after a particular experience I've had on and off...

It has to deal with the seeming "disappearance" of awareness while we sleep.

A common spiritual teaching is that awareness (or substitute whatever word you like!) is the only constant in experience. Or more simply, you being there is the only stable factor...

This came to me after I took a nap on the couch...but while I was napping, I more or less was aware of it happening. This has happened before...it's usually when I'm feeling pleasant, that I can start to fall asleep, and be somewhat aware of it happening. I could feel my mind starting to ignore hearing the background noises, I could feel that my eyes stopped paying attention to my eyelids...I basically noticed the body falling asleep. No analyzing or thinking was happening, it was just noticing it all happen...

Anyway, I then started thinking about how when we go to sleep at night, we usually seem to "disappear" for lack of a better word. Or experience stops happening, or whatever. At first, it seems like this sort of conflicts with the idea that our being is the permanence among the impermanent.

Then why does it seem like it all disappears?

Now, I'm not saying that it really DOES disappear...I'm fully open to the idea that something beyond the scope of my understanding is happening in such an everyday activity...I've heard stories of people who claim to be able to remain aware while also deep in sleep.

Consciousness seems to change in a spectrum-like fashion. It is very obvious sometimes, and less obvious at others. Sleep being at one end of that spectrum.

Any answer wouldn't change a thing, but i'm curious as to what others have to say. This discussion is just for fun.

Special hello to all the regulars that still post here

[Hazelkay]

"At first, it seems like this sort of conflicts with the idea that our being is the permanence among the impermanent."

This is the bit that jumped out at me

Perhaps I've misunderstood - but 'our being' for me is a construct we make moment by moment - there is nothing permanent in it.

peace and joy
H

[olmate]

Hi Midnight,

It is an interesting question. What comes to mind though is the variations in light associated with day and night. In the light of day "seeing" (or heightened awareness) is easy. But as the light fades at sunset, seeing becomes more difficult.

But if you have experienced periods in total darkness - well in star light only, you find you can see.

So if this anology plays out - the conclusion is that it is about increasing the levels of awareness in the different states of being physically awake or asleep.

Just a thought. Good to see your posts as usual.

Nothing but the best...

Olmate

[Midnight]

Originally Posted by Hazelkay

"At first, it seems like this sort of conflicts with the idea that our being is the permanence among the impermanent."

This is the bit that jumped out at me

Perhaps I've misunderstood - but 'our being' for me is a construct we make moment by moment - there is nothing permanent in it.

peace and joy
H

When I said being, I meant presence...consciousness...awareness. All that jazz.

@olmate

"It is an interesting question. What comes to mind though is the variations in light associated with day and night. In the light of day "seeing" (or heightened awareness) is easy. But as the light fades at sunset, seeing becomes more difficult.

This is how i'm feeling about it. It wouldn't make sense that it all really just disappears. Sort of how before we all came to practice meditation, we really didn't pay attention to the fact that we are aware beings...and in my experience, I remember not feeling as awake and aware as I do now.

Good to see you both, hope all is well.

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by Midnight

Hey everyone, how are you all doing?

Good thanks!

Anyway, I then started thinking about how when we go to sleep at night, we usually seem to "disappear" for lack of a better word. Or experience stops happening, or whatever. At first, it seems like this sort of conflicts with the idea that our being is the permanence among the impermanent.

Then why does it seem like it all disappears?

Now, I'm not saying that it really DOES disappear...I'm fully open to the idea that something beyond the scope of my understanding is happening in such an everyday activity...I've heard stories of people who claim to be able to remain aware while also deep in sleep.

The fact you're aware when you wake up shows that it's not disappeared. There's no destruction and re-creation of the awareness each time you sleep. If it disappeared, then when it was recreated when you awaken, you would have some sort of new awareness ... ... a sort of "who am I? why am I here?" moment. (yes I know we can feel like this in the morning, but that's just the mind playing with us).

Consciousness seems to change in a spectrum-like fashion. It is very obvious sometimes, and less obvious at others. Sleep being at one end of that spectrum.

Ok, there's no actual hard and fast explanation for it, so we can only use analogies or ideas to represent what's happening.

At a high level, consider that when you fall asleep, your senses and other parts of your physical body go into "shutdown". i.e. your digestion system slows down, your ears stop hearing etc. and anything in the conscious mind essentially disconnects, just leaving the unconscious to keep things running. Our awareness interfaces through our conscious mind (let's face it we don't have to be aware of how the body works, we're just aware of what the mind is up to). So, by logical deduction, if the mind is settling into sleep, the awareness has nothing to be aware of through the physical mind (as far as the mind is physical). So, awareness sits there, being aware, but not an awareness of the physical realm that we're consciously used to contemplating.

Another way of looking at is with a completely dualistic viewpoint, in that the Awareness is all One and that oneness manifests as physical beings/things; not just one per awareness, but one awareness manifesting as ALL things. When the physical beings/things are resting, the awareness is still there manifesting through the others. You could also consider how awareness is in, what we would call, non-living things... perhaps sit down with a stone and meditate on it's awareness.

Hugs

Giles

[Midnight]

Originally Posted by GilesC

Good thanks!

Awesome!

Originally Posted by GilesC

The fact you're aware when you wake up shows that it's not disappeared. There's no destruction and re-creation of the awareness each time you sleep.

This seems to be the most obvious way of looking at it. My intuition feels as if that's the best way of looking at it.

Originally Posted by GilesC

*mind blowing*

Hugs

Giles

And that's another interesting way of looking at it. Awesome. Thanks for your input, Giles.

[niche168]

I always wonder what people feel before they die. It might be the same feeling as what we feel before we fall alseep. I feel it is a gradual process to lose awareness. I cannot think like you before I go to bed or I cannot fall asleep at all.

Originally Posted by Midnight

Hey everyone, how are you all doing?

So recently, curiosity has appeared again after a particular experience I've had on and off...

It has to deal with the seeming "disappearance" of awareness while we sleep.

A common spiritual teaching is that awareness (or substitute whatever word you like!) is the only constant in experience. Or more simply, you being there is the only stable factor...

This came to me after I took a nap on the couch...but while I was napping, I more or less was aware of it happening. This has happened before...it's usually when I'm feeling pleasant, that I can start to fall asleep, and be somewhat aware of it happening. I could feel my mind starting to ignore hearing the background noises, I could feel that my eyes stopped paying attention to my eyelids...I basically noticed the body falling asleep. No analyzing or thinking was happening, it was just noticing it all happen...

Anyway, I then started thinking about how when we go to sleep at night, we usually seem to "disappear" for lack of a better word. Or experience stops happening, or whatever. At first, it seems like this sort of conflicts with the idea that our being is the permanence among the impermanent.

Then why does it seem like it all disappears?

Now, I'm not saying that it really DOES disappear...I'm fully open to the idea that something beyond the scope of my understanding is happening in such an everyday activity...I've heard stories of people who claim to be able to remain aware while also deep in sleep.

Consciousness seems to change in a spectrum-like fashion. It is very obvious sometimes, and less obvious at others. Sleep being at one end of that spectrum.

Any answer wouldn't change a thing, but i'm curious as to what others have to say. This discussion is just for fun.

Special hello to all the regulars that still post here

[robrg1836]

This is a great thread...

[olmate]

I always wonder what people feel before they die. It might be the same feeling as what we feel before we fall alseep. I feel it is a gradual process to lose awareness. I cannot think like you before I go to bed or I cannot fall asleep at all.

There are a number of communities of practice that follow a path of "dying each day". The feeling attached to that practice is one of very advanced humility (if that makes sense) and abject poverty in the sense of total abandonment.

Perhaps another context of the feeling is just being in the now. Riding that wave of presence. So unlike the process of falling asleep where everything slows - I suspect it is one of liberation, release, expansion and utter freedom.

I guess time will tell though....

Olmate

[Midnight]

Originally Posted by niche168

I always wonder what people feel before they die. It might be the same feeling as what we feel before we fall alseep. I feel it is a gradual process to lose awareness. I cannot think like you before I go to bed or I cannot fall asleep at all.

I've wondered the same thing, and I've thought the exact same thing. Perhaps it feels just like falling asleep to the body. Or maybe it is something else entirely. I can only create images in my head for this, like olmate said...only time will tell.

Life is so full of mystery...the beauty is that one doesn't need to know the answers to live life. Such an incredible thing though...

@robrg1836: Thanks for thinking so!