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Old January 19th, 2012, 20:03   #1 (permalink)
brozen (Offline)
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Default Infatuation and relationships

hi dawgs, its been a while since ive posted about my own problems, but i havent had one worth requiring assistance until now.

Recently ive been hanging around this girl that I have slowly become attracted to. It is simply that 'infatuation' feeling that people seem to get at the start of a relationship. the kind of feeling where if you get a text from the girl, you feel good and if u dont hear from them for a while u feel like crap or start coming up with crazy scenarios about how she DOESNT like you anymore. I dont know how else to explain it but I'm sure a lot of people can related to it.

Since starting meditation 1 year ago I haven't had any girl in my life that i have had any interest in. During this year I have been in a pretty calm state of mind almost all the time. I don't let things worry me and i can make it through 'tense' situations etc without having my mind affected. I have been aware of thoughts and desires, and successfully avoided chasing random emotions and feelings that crop up in my body/mind.

But this romantic feeling is a lot more overwhelming that most any other emotion. I have already seen the benefit of letting go of emotional bonds to objects in the material world. I dont really even know what to ask.

But i guess i am looking, at least at first, for some new ways of thinking about having a crush, while trying to keep a balanced calm mind. they seem completely incompatible. Also I have a feeling this infatuation state of mind, may be a little different to any talk of full of relationships. It's a kind of specific feeling which is not love but can be easily confused as love. Not sure if that may help hone any advice to the specific problem.

Anyway would love to hear from people and their experiences. Good to be back

Peace to all.
 
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Old January 19th, 2012, 21:07   #2 (permalink)
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Smile Infatuation and relationships

Hello Brozen how are you today

As to your question,this is what i would do.
Meditation is all about mindfulness and awareness,meditate on the subject ask yourself question such as "why am i feeling this way?" or "what is it exactly that attracts me to this individual?" i would ask myself questions and take note of the physical sensations i feel in my body you might feel a pressure in the heart area,bring your awareness and attention to that area try to analyze what your heart/body is trying to tell you while you think about it.
If it is infatuation you will feel a burning desire to be with this person take note that desire isn't always a good thing,and when your around her take note on what your body tells you when your around her is it comfortable or do you feel emotionally drained around this person.If it drains you of your energy,then...forgive me for saying this but STAY AWAY from this person by any means necessary.
I learned quickly that some women are energy leeches don't miss understand me Guy's can be too.Some people would even go as far as calling them Energy Vampires. Take note this is just a theory most people are unaware that they are even doing it,however i would ask that you observe what happens when she is around other people,how do the people act around her.
does she prefer to be around the more positive energized people if so i say you hightail it out of there.If she prefers to be around you more because you are the most positive person then good luck to you,i dunno what i should tell you if this is the case.
And if it truly is Love it will feel warm and welcoming,peaceful and blissful.
It would feel and seem as if you were observing a new born child,if it truly is love that you feel for this person then your relationship STATUS with this person wouldn't matter you would feel content and happy with or without her thinking about her will make you happy calm and peaceful,the world around you will cease to exist.Time will speed up you could think about her and be friends with her forever without the need for a relationship you would feel happy wonderful and grateful to be alive to witness the moment and if she were to approach you,you may feel this need to RUN AWAY because you would be so nervous on what to say or think about when your around her.
If she were to give you a kiss you may as well call an Ambulance for CPR (Metaphorically speaking that is)

Hope this helps,these may be some bizzar or over exaggerating ideas but,it's just there to give you a basic idea of what it may seem like.

these are just my ideas.

Love and Light to all ^_^
 
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Old January 21st, 2012, 18:38   #3 (permalink)
brozen (Offline)
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hi, PhysIll.
I really enjoyed reading your post. Your descriptions of love and infatuation are pretty spot on with my own ideas of them. I think you have helped me see this situation a little more clearly. I feel my original problem came mainly from not being able to answer the question "why am I feeling this way". But the more the I give responses to this question, the more it feels as if I am afraid to lose someone who I have decided is an ideal person to be in a relationship with. I guess, infatuation can only stem from selfish ideas like this, whereas love would be more along the lines of wanting to form any type of relationship that is beneficial to both people, whether it is just friends or more than that.
When imaging this girl with another guy, theres feelings of jealousy and regret that I hadn't acted sooner etc.

Even with this knowledge it makes it easier to see that if I form a relationship with this girl based on these emotions it would be quite a selfish thing.

I have had experience with Energy Vampires. My earliest experiences with girls were like that. She would pretty much do whatever she wanted while I was going completely mad. I dont quite understand what you meant by this "does she prefer to be around the more positive energized people if so i say you hightail it out of there." Is this a bad thing, maybe I am interpreting your 'positive energized people' in the wrong way.

However, from experience with VAMPIRES, I think it is safe to say this current girl is not at all like that. She is just a friendly, nice person who is funny and COOL.

Anyway now I feel like I may aswell be writing in a diary of my thoughts, being super excited about a new crush haha.

I am also very tired at the moment so I am finding it very hard to keep on track. But I can say that your post did give me some clarity. I have meditated recently and all my feelings have subsided quite substantially. However now I am more worried about how she feels about me and if I have been leading her on in a bad way with all my giddyness for her.

Time to be calm and make things clear.

Also with your description of Love, it sounded like such a calm and serene thing, but then the heart attack styled kissing scene made me think it was more to do with infatuation than love. But maybe I haven't experienced that type of thing to understand how that works out as pure love.

THANKS for your help. If you have anything more to add after my random rant I would be happy to hear more.

thanks again, enjoy the peace
 
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Old January 21st, 2012, 22:30   #4 (permalink)
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What it is i meant when i said "does she prefer to be around the more positive energized people if so i say you hightail it out of there." is her attraction towards positive energy which is the best source (Any emotion that you give out radiates to others some call it the AURA,the bigger/charged your is,the more you become a feeding ground for unconscious or conscious Energy Vampires.The common view of Vampires is that they drink blood,no they do not.Energy Vampires drain you of your Life Force/Chi/Ki/Cosmic Energy/, it's bin named many different things however most of them do it without being aware of it,...and those who are aware they can do it are even more Dangerous, even though they cant drain you completely to the point of death they can make someone very tired to the point of Collapse.

As for advice,i would say "Ask Her" be compassionate with your words.If you wish to turn it into a practice,here is what i would do.
Courage and personal power comes from the Solar Plexus Chakra,(1/2 inch above your belly button) and the Throat Chakra is Responsible for speech and wisdom some call it"Voice of the Kings (which is 1/2 inch beneath the Adams Apple).(VISUALIZE <--- very important)a transparent ball the size of a soccer ball and VISUALIZE YELLOW not gold,(Yellow is the solar plexus color) Pure Liquid filling your created sphere.
(Note: DO not loos track or break concentration while visualizing,the moment this happens exercise has failed because you allow distractions/thoughts/and unwanted emotions entering your sphere,thus making it no longer PURE,your mind has to be a clean empty clip board metaphorically speaking that is) when it is completely filled,visualize your Etheric Body's Hands gently guiding it to your Solar Plexus.If successful you will feel warm cozy and tingly in your stomach area and peaceful.Now Using a technique called Mobile body awareness Astral Dynamics - 09 gather some of this energy and Gently guide it to your throat Chakra.If successful it will also feel tingly warm and fuzzy.
And now take 3 deeps breaths to clear your mind and proceed about your day .
If you have successfully carried out this practice you might notice that when you speak you might draw attention to yourself (Positive Attention) people might even be compelled to be around you and you might even surprise yourself with the things you'll say ^_-.
The reason why it's so important to visualize is simply this,Your Etheric Body aka Astral Body only responds to thought forms (Thinking Patterns). The Etheric Dimension of reality operates on totally different laws of physics then the physical material world does,the more detail you visualize+Smell,taste,touch,sight,hearing in the physical realm the more detail you will RECEIVE/Conjure in the Etheric Realm aka Astral Planes making your practice 10x more powerful,and this is FACTS govern by the LAWS of Energy Manipulation Techniques.
The VERY REASON why people FAIL to create or practice anything related to ENERGY techniques is due to the LACK of FOCUS,DETAIL and PERCEPTION.
and the CAUSE of this is the MONKEY MIND.
Meditation allows the practitioner to SILENCE his THOUGHTS for a PROLONGED period of time,Focusing on breath meditation allows you to be AWARE of the here and NOW.
Focusing on your Hearing Meditation,allows your hearing to focus on the here and NOW
Sight meditation is visualizing on an object or scene with your third eye.
Taste meditation,(brush your teeth before you do this one trust me)
Touch meditation,have you ever noticed Buddhists Clasping there hands or index finger and thumb???
Smell meditation .......incense (mmmmm smells good )

The rest is pretty much self explanitory ^_^

I hope this helps you on your Quest for the Self.

Love and light to all.
 
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 00:32   #5 (permalink)
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Hi Brozen,

I thought Iíd share my reflections on this as it got me thinking, just another perspective on it nothing else.

Originally Posted by brozen
I feel my original problem came mainly from not being able to answer the question "why am I feeling this way"
Iím pretty sure everyone has felt like this at least once in there life, if not more so. I know I have and will no doubt do so again in the future.

Originally Posted by brozen
But i guess i am looking, at least at first, for some new ways of thinking about having a crush, while trying to keep a balanced calm mind. they seem completely incompatible.
Your experiencing emotions and you canít control what you feel, but you can control how you react to those feelings. It may not seem like much advice but Iíd just recommend watching/noticing your emotions, treat the situation to some degree as a mediation. Iíve tried for a long time to watch my emotions in different situations rather than get caught up in them (and its not always easy , lol!). I think I read that some Buddhists donít say ďI am angryĒ rather ďAnger is with meĒ, and the same with any emotion. It differentiates Ďthemí and the emotion. The emotion is fleeting and as with thoughts, it/they will pass.

I would say that getting caught up (and thus becoming unconscious) because of emotions is incompatible with a calm mind. But if you watch emotions, youíll be able to be some degree of balance/calmness to the moment/situation and also to your reactions, even during these times.

Originally Posted by brozen
When imaging this girl with another guy, theres feelings of jealousy and regret that I hadn't acted sooner etc.
It seems to me the jealousy indicates that your mind thinks this girl could Ďaddí something to your mental picture of yourself and you donít want anyone else to get this. Please donít take me wrong, I get jealous too, but I do think there is real truth in the statement ďIf you really love someone, youíll be prepared to let them leaveĒ. In which case jealously doesnít really come into it Ė sheíll either want to be with you or not, turning into a little green eyed monster will not help you or her.

As for regret, Iíve kicked myself for missing opportunities and mucked up others because I was too impulsive, I would imagine this is pretty standard for everyone. Having said that, itís a bit of a waste of time to regret things too much, I used to hate comments like ďeverything is a learning experienceĒ, but its true. If things seem like there going OK why not just ask her out for a couple of beers or a trip to the cinema, nothing majorly committal but a sign that youíd like to spend more time with her. Just appraise the situation honestly beforehand and if you think she seems interested why not?

Oh, and whatís the value in imagining her with another guy? The only thing could be to get you to act if you were hesitant, but apart from that a waste of time as youíre just creating negative emotion in yourself for no reason! STOP IT!

Originally Posted by brozen
Also with your description of Love, it sounded like such a calm and serene thing, but then the heart attack styled kissing scene made me think it was more to do with infatuation than love. But maybe I haven't experienced that type of thing to understand how that works out as pure love.
I think the adrenaline rush and excitement is more a lust thing, especially at the start of a potential new relationship, all good fun, but as you mention I donít think it represents true love.

Iím starting to appreciate that true love involves understanding, forgiveness, empathy and trust amongst other things. I find some of the nicest times in a relationship are when you trust (and have had your trust repaid,) you forgive (and are forgiven for) mistakes, your listened to and willing to listen and you support the goals/hopes of each other and you can be fully truthful. All this binds together and produces a background feeling/canvass which allows you to know that even if youíre both angry with each other, enjoying fun/laughter or even a bit of bedtime gymnastics itís just an emotion/experience painted on the background canvass. The emotion/experience will eventually pass/disappear, unlike the canvass.

Originally Posted by brozen
However now I am more worried about how she feels about me and if I have been leading her on in a bad way with all my giddyness for her.
On a final note, this seemed another ego play Ė make the chase while she seems unobtainable but then when there has been a success sheís no longer Ďattractiveí. I only mention this as it wouldnít feel nice if the boot was on with other foot, so maybe spending some time away from her might actually be a good thing for both of you both, so you can spend some time reflecting on how you real feel and what youíre actually after.

Iíll wind my neck in now, good luck
 
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Old January 26th, 2012, 05:27   #6 (permalink)
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physIll:
Ah, I see what you mean now. I guess maybe I didn't believe in that same idea. I prefer to think, that there are ppl who's actions may make them appear as a Vampire, but really its your own reaction to that person that is draining. In the case of someone who is infatuated, it is completely up to them to either follow their emotions and therefore drain themselves into unconciousness, or to remain aware of their emotions (this may also feel like a draining experience) and to realize when and why they react. It's probably not as easy as it sounds, as I have experienced personally on a much less intense level. But it's possible and I would hope that it gives the Vampire a chance to feed off your positive energy, in a positive way.
This kind of sounds like the typical bad relationship thing where one person is being drained of their energy but they stick around all the while thinking, "I know if i stick around long enough this person will change for me." Hopefully this isn't as naive as that thinking has proven to be, but it seems like avoiding a person is an aversion tactic which seems to be more plays by the mind to act on its desires.

I am not completely sure of what I've just said, but it's the immediate thing that came into my head as I read your post. Perhaps our ideas of Vampires is just very different.
Also I haven't tried the technique you explained but I have bookmarked for the future. (procrastination)

thanks for the detail, should be helpful

Wukong:

Hi, its been a long time and I've always enjoyed your thoughts, they are very clear and come from an unbiased way of thinking. True discussion style.

Iím pretty sure everyone has felt like this at least once in there life, if not more so. I know I have and will no doubt do so again in the future.
It's a funny thing. There are lots of cravings and feelings that happen everyday that seem to be easily observed and 'dealt with'. But when it comes to this, less common, infatuated state of mind; it seems, at least in the beginning, it is so difficult to de cloud your mind. I think it's the most fun emotion to have, in that it is so challengingly torturous to deal with. Providing that there is no harm done in the process.

It differentiates Ďthemí and the emotion. The emotion is fleeting and as with thoughts, it/they will pass.
This has actually helped over the last week or so. I learned a similar 'technique' of being aware that like everything in the universe, emotions are impermanent, or Anicca (pali word). A nice word to say Anicca Anicca Anicca.
It's a good thing to remind yourself of in times when the mind is starting to get densely clogged with thoughts and emotions. Kind of an instant reminder that it's not going to be around for long, so no need to think that its going to be like this forever. Heavy intense feelings last an infinitely less time to when they used to totally consume your life, day and night.

As for jealousy and regret styled thinking, I guess these were spur of the moment. When I think of the same situation now, it doesn't bother me (as much). If it were to happen in reality I think it would be easier to deal with then when it happens in my head. It's a strange thing, but I think my brain knows how to make any situation into a nightmare as opposed to a reality where things happen, and there isn't much else to it.

It's a kind of sick idea to think I would be fuming about a girl being with another guy. As if it were ME who deserved her and no body else REGARDLESS of what she thought. A very selfish ego based reaction.
ďIf you really love someone, youíll be prepared to let them leaveĒ.
I think I would be prepared to let her leave, but I can't say that it is based on Love. Unless you mean the infinite love that is felt between everything in the universe. I am a bit confused by when people say Love. Is romantic Love different from the real Love, or is romantic Love just another form of infatuation. It confuses me to see guru's who have wives who they love and dedicate themselves to. Do they love them as equally as they love everyone else. What makes them stay together if it's nothing 'special'. Might be going off on a tangent but i think it's related to the confusion of what I 'should' optimally be feeling.

Your idea of Love is a very nice one. It's much better than imagining a future of relationship Pain where things are like a rollercoaster and there is only brief periods (if at all) of settling in the calm peace of Love. Longterm Relationships seem much less scary

Originally Posted by brozen
However now I am more worried about how she feels about me and if I have been leading her on in a bad way with all my giddyness for her.
I guess there is a bit of ego in there, and I'll admit that there is a slight allure to the chase, despite it being very cruel. Although in this case I don't think my end goal was to chase, get victory and then run away. It may have sounded like that with my use of 'leading her on'. It's not that I don't want to be with her its just that I don't want her to think I want to be with her more than I actually do. I'd like to be around her and get to know her, veryyy slowly preferably, but my fear was that I may have sounded like I wanted to get into a relationship FAST.
I'm not sure if that responded to your point, and its probably something that will be dealt with the next time I see her.

Things are more smooth now. I have managed to keep a level head. For a change I am going to try to be completely honest in situations (I won't say EVERYTHING in my head). But the things that stop the whole situation from turning into a 'game', will be said when necessary.

Thanks for discussing this monkey and Phys, I have a much lighter, less tense feeling within me know. The tension is very fleeting if at all. Also just love talking about this stuff as a 'theory'.
Always looking forward to hearing more from anyone who has some thoughts.

Thanks again for responses. peace peace peace
ANICCAAAaaaaaaa
 
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Old January 27th, 2012, 00:34   #7 (permalink)
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Hi Brozen,

WuKong Ė lol , thatís Sun WuKong to you!

Indeed it has been a while, actually you never reported/posted back about your meditation retreat which I meant to ask about (Iím sure you went to Thailand or somewhere).

Originally Posted by brozen
I think it's the most fun emotion to have, in that it is so challengingly torturous to deal with.
I just wanted to hold up a mirror here, simply because Iíve had (and at times still fall into) an attachment to want to be seen by myself as someone who will Ďcarry on through sufferingí and being a person that Ďsoldiers on through the tough timesí etc. Although donít get me wrong, I feel this type of persistence is admirable in life. It just seems in this instance you might me making the situation more difficult than it actually is so that you can fulfill the mental image you want of yourself. If you genuinely enjoy it Iím not one to judge, but the following analogy came to mind.

A boxer might feel proud of himself for getting through a tough fight where he took a load of massive hits/haymakers and had to Ďtough it outí, plus heíd get respect off others for doing so. If at a later date he sat down and started punching himself in the face to prove to himself how tough he was, youíd think heíd be better off spending his time doing other things, like relaxing and not punching himself!

Originally Posted by brozen
It's a strange thing, but I think my brain knows how to make any situation into a nightmare as opposed to a reality where things happen, and there isn't much else to it.
I think most peopleís do and mine certainly likes to. I think this links into above, in that I know that if my mind creates a seemingly nasty situation out of nothing (or something mild) I have to be able to Ďtake the painí and get through it, creating/validating my ďI can tough it outĒ label that my ego enjoys. I tend to try and notice these times, consider what is rationally/actually going on and then see (where applicable) what I can do to make the situation positive. This might be simply stopping thinking/worrying about it and allowing myself a bit of peace, or perhaps learning about something new or trying to develop a new skill.

Originally Posted by brozen
I think I would be prepared to let her leave, but I can't say that it is based on Love. Unless you mean the infinite love that is felt between everything in the universe.
I like analogies , so Iíll throw another one in here to try and explain what I meant with the ďbe prepared to let her leaveĒ. A beautiful bird visits your garden, one that has you awestruck with its beauty and for some reason gives you huge comfort, happiness and joy when you see it. The bird flyís into your house and you both spend time experiencing the joy of being together. When you see the bird looking to fly out the house, maybe to never see you again, would you clutch at it, grab it and putting in a cage so you can have what you want? Or would you accept that the bird needs to be free to be truly beautiful, so you let it fly where ever it wants to, even if that is means (with a heavy heart) out of your life.

Originally Posted by brozen
It confuses me to see guru's who have wives who they love and dedicate themselves to. Do they love them as equally as they love everyone else.
This has me baffled too , Iíve pondered this before and if there is true universal love then indeed everything should be loved equally, from the most anti-social in society to the most angelic. Maybe itís a post-enlightenment understanding type thingÖ in which case I have either Bob or No hope of getting it, and I hear Bob's on his holidays

Originally Posted by brozen
It's not that I don't want to be with her its just that I don't want her to think I want to be with her more than I actually do. I'd like to be around her and get to know her, veryyy slowly preferably, but my fear was that I may have sounded like I wanted to get into a relationship FAST.
Why not just go with the flow and enjoy where it takes you? So long as sheís not hassling you to pre-order a wedding ring or anything , just keep hanging out with her and what will happen will happen. If it goes too fast then just talk to her, explain the situation (you want to go slow) and just be honest. Is this a guaranteed path to success, nope! (Not with my track record!) but it will get you involved in life, instead of worrying about it.

Originally Posted by brozen
"Also just love talking about this stuff as a 'theory'."
I do too; I enjoy hearing other peopleís perspectives on subjects, especially when they differ from mine or point out flaws or misunderstanding in my outlook (I get served up humble pie quite a lot, lucky Iím a hungry fella ). On the same note Iím aware at times I end up building a big theoretical/conceptual framework on which my monkey mind can swing around on, play with and enjoy Ė but this can distract me from the present and possible deeper feelings/insights.

Whew! I feel thatís quite enough from me, time to jump on that pink cloud and find some demons, Oi DEMON!

Take it easy,

Mr S.WuKong
 
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Old January 28th, 2012, 14:12   #8 (permalink)
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lol Sun Wukong. i must give thanks to Sun Wukong for giving birth to Son Goku from dragonball Z. pretty much my favourite character out of all things. they even fly on the same 'Nimbus' cloud lol.

Oh, I actually can't remember if I had made a thread about my mediation retreat and I cant figure out how to find old threads. If you could link me to it I'd be happy to respond. It was a really good experience. I actually did it in the mountains in my own country, Australia. Its called Vipassana and theres heaps of places very similar all around the world, so I may as well have been in Thailand.

Originally Posted by brozen
I think it's the most fun emotion to have, in that it is so challengingly torturous to deal with.
I totally agree that this type of thinking does focus on the experiences of struggles and challenges rather than the solution to those problems. I'm sure there may be some cases where this type of thinking could help, perhaps where the struggles that you encounter are unavoidable and endlessly persistent. But this situation, especially since it involves somebody else who has their own set of emotions, is inappropriate to be treated so trivially.
But in terms of the range of emotions that humans can experience, I guess i said the original quote to express that I am impressed by how baffle-ingly (not a word) difficult lust and infatuation can be to deal with. So far it is the only emotion I have had that literally turns my mind to goo. Even after learning to be the observer and forming a calm mind through meditation, infatuation just THROWS all that work out the window. So I guess from a cold analytical point of view, I would see infatuated mind as 'Fun' to struggle through. despite that being far from the reality lol.

I think ur analogy has convinced me that relaxing and not-punching myself do seem like much better past times though. haha

"I can tough it out". This attitude has probably been one thing that has kept me from finding meditation for so long. The fact that my favourite character is Goku, shows that I've also always admired that persistent fighter attitude over the, peaceful, thoughtful attitude (which is also a trait of goku lol) It is a very dangerous and self destructive way of thinking though, and seems to be the way Westerners like to think.

This might be simply stopping thinking/worrying about it and allowing myself a bit of peace, or perhaps learning about something new or trying to develop a new skill.
These are effective methods but I prefer something else you have mentioned in another post. You also posted about wondering what a girl thought of you, then realizing that you aren't even sure who you are. I like these kinds of moments. They kind of put a bit of perspective and humour on the issue. I like to be able to feel that the problems I come up with in my head are kind of ridiculous in the grand scheme. I find asking "How would a tree respond to this issue?". Is a good way of changing perspective.

Or would you accept that the bird needs to be free to be truly beautiful, so you let it fly where ever it wants to, even if that is means (with a heavy heart) out of your life.
I would like to think I could reach the point where I allow the bird to leave and still my heart remains calm and light. I still don't understand what it would be like to feel pure love. I wonder if the heavy heart is unavoidable or if it can be simply felt through observation rather than at a close level of attachment. It was a good analogy but the mention of the heavy heart turned on the panic alarm ( OH NO! I THOUGHT LOVE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE AND CALM). I'm sure it is, but its still a curious thing.

I guess understanding True Love would really be the ultimate understanding. No wonder almost every religion has it as the core. I'm Hope Bob gets back from his holidays soon


Honesty is the key. I also came to this conclusion. Thinking of past relationships, where games were played and each person is left with shitty uneasy feelings, waiting for the other person to explain themselves or for some piece of information to be revealed. It's true a relationship of honesty would be perfect. Honesty and Acceptance would probably go well together.
I'd rather not be on a guaranteed path to success than deal with the HELL's of Relationship Games.

but this can distract me from the present and possible deeper feelings/insights.
I'm feeling the same way lately. I feel like I need to spend a bit of time getting back into meditation, otherwise I think I'm just going round in circles treating this whole business as something purely intellectual.

I may actually avoid posting my own questions for a while. I found the best time of my meditation was when I didn't need to ask questions and instead helped others out in whatever way I could by answering their own questions. It's true, the monkey has had enough time playing around on swings, time to look a bit deeper and experience these things.

I think I've gotten a bit off topic a few times, but its all good lol.
I've enjoyed your well chosen analogies. I will remember the bird one as I'm sure it will be relevant sometime in the future, hopefully not too soon.

Anyway, good luck with the demon hunting.

thanks for letting the monkey out to play.

C U
 
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 00:23   #9 (permalink)
Mr Monkey (Offline)
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Hello again,

Originally Posted by brozen
Oh, I actually can't remember if I had made a thread about my mediation retreat and I cant figure out how to find old threads.
Top of the screen, look below the main Project Meditation title and youíll see the menu bar Ė look along there and youíll see 'search' (but you need to be signed in to use it).

Originally Posted by brozen
If you could link me to it I'd be happy to respond. It was a really good experience.
Looks like I got myself confused . This is the thread I was thinking of but no meditation course mentioned. Even so, Iíd be interested to hear your thoughts/reflections on the experience, positive and negative.

Originally Posted by brozen
my own country, Australia.
For some reason this came as a bit of a surprise, Iíd always assumed you were from the US Ė funny how the mind can make these assumptions. But as youíre from Oz feel free to talk about cricket (the Ashes) any time , although this offer maybe withdrawn pending events in 2013 .

Originally Posted by brozen
The fact that my favourite character is Goku, shows that I've also always admired that persistent fighter attitude over the, peaceful, thoughtful attitude (which is also a trait of goku lol) It is a very dangerous and self destructive way of thinking though, and seems to be the way Westerners like to think.
I always liked Monkey because he was cheeky, loyal and hard as nails! I canít believe someone thought itíd be a good idea to let him have a son, bet theyíd make a right double act! Itís interesting what you say about the Ďfighter attitudeí and I agree and yet disagree on its benefit as a personal trait.

I agree in the sense that if you need conflict to continually prove yourself (to yourself and others) through fighting/suffering at some point youíll just tire yourself out and never appease that part of your ego that likes the idea of the fighter/sufferer (you'll never fight or suffer quite enough). In this scenario it is a destructive approach to yourself and for anyone else you feel the need to fight with (mentally or physically).

Having said that, if you are following something you truly believe in you will likely naturally show these attributes. In this case theyíre a byproduct of what youíre doing, not the aim, so there is no ego involved and in this instance I feel theyíre positive traits. To try and clarify, when I say ďsomething you truly believe inĒ, Iím thinking of something peaceful guiding you from within (a natural/pure guiding feeling if that makes sense) rather than a conceptual idea. Not sure if Iíve explained that last part well, maybe following a calm, peace inner light may explain it better (or not! )

Originally Posted by brozen
You also posted about wondering what a girl thought of you, then realizing that you aren't even sure who you are. I like these kinds of moments. They kind of put a bit of perspective and humour on the issue.
I like them too, it makes me smile when these insights come and slap me round the face when Iím least expecting it.

Originally Posted by brozen
I would like to think I could reach the point where I allow the bird to leave and still my heart remains calm and light. I still don't understand what it would be like to feel pure love. I wonder if the heavy heart is unavoidable or if it can be simply felt through observation rather than at a close level of attachment. It was a good analogy but the mention of the heavy heart turned on the panic alarm ( OH NO! I THOUGHT LOVE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE AND CALM). I'm sure it is, but its still a curious thing.
I feel the heaviness of the heart would be relative to the attachment the person had, in a way the person creates there own suffering.

I sometimes like to play with the idea of ďHow would Eckhart Tolle react?Ē, might be a good one to ponder on. Also the opposite thought to ďOH NO! I THOUGHT LOVE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE AND CALMĒ just popped into my head, ďWhat makes love conditional and turbulent?Ē.

This has still got me confused as I feel that a deeper/background/spacious kind of thing is involved too (hard to explain againÖ), whereís Bob when you need himÖ.

Originally Posted by brozen
I'm Hope Bob gets back from his holidays soon
Lol, no kidding, same here! I think the cheeky blighter has taken an extended leave of absence (or maybe even emigrated ).

Cheers, Paul
 
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Old February 13th, 2012, 18:24   #10 (permalink)
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Hey, excuse my late reply.
I guess I have been putting advice into action over the last weeks.

Oh yeah, I had planned to go to some kind of retreat in Nepal but that never happened. Didn't really give myself time. But kind of happy I saw the country while I was there. I'm sure meditation over seas can't be too much different from meditation on my bed at home.

But yes I ended up going on a Vipassana course just outside of Sydney. Website ThiŠĽĀn Vipassana Im pretty sure they have courses in all major cities in the world. They are an excellent group. You've probably heard of them in one way or another.

It consists of a 10day course, with Noble Silence. No talking for 10 days (this was my favourite part) It's a very rare thing to be able to do. It removes almost all tension that can come from people being in the same room together. No such thing as awkward silences. No tension from wondering what to say/whether things should be said/ if you should nod hello at someone. The idea of judgement just leaves. You can probably imagine it but there are so many LITTLE things that become so much easier.

The only negative things were trying to get used to crossing legs and meditating (i usually do it on a chair or sitting with back against wall) they prefer you to do it on meditation cushion. So before going make sure you are okay with that. Otherwise you will spend days in pain (which can be a good thing to work with when practicing letting go of pain, haha)

I dont want to talk ur head off about it but if you can find 10 free days, and you can imagine yourself doing 3 straight 1 hour sessions of meditation everyday then go for it. A lot of people say "meh, Ill just meditate at home" But this is very different. It's the ultimate training ground for meditation.
Also Free food and accommodation. Very little to worry about.

Funnily enough, I am not much of a cricket fan. I suppose you are from the UK or something, unless you are some OUTCAST american that knows what cricket is!! So I can't help you there haha.


The way you were talking about ďsomething you truly believe inĒ. It reminded me of this quote by Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee - Honest Expression.avi - YouTube

I guess maybe also because he fits perfectly into the fighter attitude. It seems he tries to get this point across in most of his movies. But yes I agree exactly with what you are saying. It does seem to be one of those difficult things that is not easily explained, however it just seems to be understood.

I guess in terms of this relationship talk it all comes down to whether it is based on attachment or not. It seems like attachment is love headed in the wrong direction, where it becomes 'Conditional' and 'turbulent'.

It's hard to talk about these things, i feel I really need experience to understand it. Even the theory is hard to discuss when it clashes with so many preconceived notions of Love and attachment. This is one of those topic I am going to leave for the older ages. (more likely ill be trying to figure it ALL out tomorrow night, hahah)

Also with my original problem
Your original advice
If it goes too fast then just talk to her, explain the situation (you want to go slow) and just be honest.
Excellent. Honesty is so underrated haha. I feel crazy to have been playing games with girls over the years. Honesty is so much easier and relieves all the tension. When two people are honest with other, there is almost nothing that can go wrong, as long as it comes hand in hand with acceptance.

I want to share a quick story because it was awesome and I enjoyed the feeling haha.
Me and this girl were out together and it was getting awkward to a point where we were starting to act like more than friends, but i was still unsure; of the situation, and of where i wanted it to go.
In the past I wouldve let this go and become stressed and tense for weeks, in wonder. Instead I just asked her what the deal was. She thanked me for asking and we sorted it out on the spot (over hours). WHY ISNT THIS JUST NORMAL BEHAVIOUR? haha
sorry for the venting of happiness, ive given you a lot to read. I hope there is some substance to this and not just some mindless venting (im too tired to be able to figure out if there is meaning to what I am saying.
but Also thanks for giving advice and allowing me to keep a cool head. Its very nice that people are out there with similar concerns and willing to help strategise against the evil monkey brain the dominates so much of life.

thanks again. Let me know if you choose to do Vipassana. S N Goenka is the video teacher of the retreat if you would like to see what kind of teachings are given. (very non religious and funny)

COOL

peace and bye
 
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