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Old July 1st, 2009, 12:56   #1 (permalink)
Coenrad Morgan (Offline)
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Originally Posted by angelaIBSH View Post
When we meditate, we are able to enter the world of our Beings and transcend physical boundaries. Is our ego mind shut off during meditation due to the strong bond and interconnection between our Being and Universal Being? Or are we simply able to develop awareness for the existence of an inner Being to step our ego minds?
This is something I have battled with, the frontal cortex of the brain is the home of our identity model and reasoning faculty, it is an incredible tool, we can use it to grow organic mushrooms or the kind North Korea is playing with, it is a tool of dualism, me and them, us and them, my team and the other team. It is also a tool strongly based on self worth, the "ego" - or better described as Eckhart does as your collection of memories and thoughts that make up your story and can be negative or possitive, anywhere between, I , we, my team SUCK!!! to I, we, my team are the GREATEST!!!

I dont believe that the ego goes away during meditation, you still know that you, the meatsuit, that you like or dislike with or without all the degrees and diploma's on the wall is sitting here meditating, there is still dualism present here, just that you seek an other you....still seperation. What I do feel is that the charge is taken away from the ego, its inactive leading to deeper meditation, as proof of this, try and think of someone or something you dislike and you pop straight out of the meditative state.

At some point one does experience "bliss" or oneness with it all and then, yes, I believe one has for a fleeting moment transcended the "self" or ego or identity construct but these moments are fleeting for most of us.

I like the Chinese internal martial arts (tai chi etc) term of progression towards ones goal, they refer to it as "cultivation" and I think here is the key, to cultivate the "beingness" aspect of the self to a point where you more strongly identify with it than the outer construct of ME, MY NAME, MY CAR, MY POSSITION IN SOCIETY....dualism and through cultivation simply try to be as Dr Wayne Dyer puts it, "better than I used to be", the martial arts uses a belt colour system of progression, so too does one need to realize that its about progression and not a sudden, "okay, I'm meditating, the ego is gone, I am enlightened....Michael, hand me my black meditation cushion......please" process.

At some point one should have cultivated this "Beingness" to a point where we tend to think in terms of US, WE, THE PlANET, ALL LIFE.....the ego will always be there to defend your territory or stand up for you in a meeting or court room but it will be a part time aspect of mind, once used, set aside in favour of a return to being, a mindset free from dualistic thinking which include judgement of oneself or others. In the martial arts, the apex of skill is to do the right thing at the right time without conscious thought, if you try and think about it, it all goes to pieces and you wind up in a heap on the floor, this state of "no mind" is achieved by dissiplined and focussed repetition, so to is it with the spiritual progression, hours of what seems to be meaningless repetition of a mantra and or Lifeflow, somedays it just doesnt work, some days its great, yet slowly one notices a shift from how you used to be and that the you you are and the you you where feel different, and then one day the whole "you" issue just seems unimportant....

Father Thomas Keating best discribes this process of "cultivation" which is GREATLY enhanced by meditation - almost essentialy so - in the movie "ONE".

“The beginning of the spiritual journey is, the realization, not just the information, but a real interior conviction that there is a higher power, or God, or, to make it as easy as possible for everybody, that there is an Other, Capital “O”.

Second step, try to become the Other, still a capital “O”. And finally, the realization that there is no Other, you and the other are ONE, always have been, always will be, you just think that you aren’t”

I believe, here in lies the answer, the realization that there is NO OTHER and thus the ego dissolves as there is no logical reason for its existance, not by way of force - "out ego, out....bad ego!!!....sit, stay!!!" but rather a realization of, as eckhart often says, of what is false in you, in so doing, once this realisation is a true inner conviction, the ego naturaly and quietly goes.

As for the process, each to his own, repetitive meditation though, is a strong tool for that cultivation of what is true in you and ultimately, is you and paradoxicaly me, the tree outside and all else, thus the true you is everywhere....isnt you but everything.....and at this point, you becomes irrelevant.

Last edited by Coenrad Morgan : July 1st, 2009 at 13:53. Reason: typo mania
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Old July 1st, 2009, 15:36   #2 (permalink)
Edwin (Offline)
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Hi Coenrad !

Great to hear from you again.

It's true, the ego doesn't disappear just like that. There will always be thoughts.
They come up uncontrollably. We don't even actively think, we watch thoughts come up, like I said before.

Most of the time, just watching is enough. Sometimes you will feel an urge to act. Or not.

I like that quote from the movie "One".

The search for the Self is a journey inward so that means that at the very core of you, the basis, that is where the Self is. Ergo, that is in which everything else originates. Thoughts, images, sounds, touch, feelings...

Great to hear from you again
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Old July 1st, 2009, 22:08   #3 (permalink)
Bhavya (Offline)
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Wow, Edwin, Angela, Coenrad, this certainly is an interesting discussion.
Here are some thoughts that came to mind when I read this thread:

Ego-mind isn't just negative (or positive for that matter.) It's simply a tool that the Being has to exist in the world of duality as you all may have said.

A question to ponder is whether we have to purify the mind in order to realize that we are Being or Self on an ongoing basis. Mooji says no. We just have to move beyond identifying with ego-mind. It'll always be there, available, but it won't run the show.

But Sri Ramana Maharishi points out that Inquiry is really only suitable for 'ripe souls' whatever that may mean to you. It's certainly true that we have to reach the point where the mind is still enough in order to do the inquiry, "Who am I?" Otherwise the mind will be assailed with wayward thoughts or sleep. (from The Spiritual Teachings of Ramana Maharshi, Shambala Classics, a really excellent book.) This we get through concentration practices by focusing on mantra or breath and using LF, plus ethical behaviour which Buddhists say is essential for achieving concentration.

If you think that Self-Inquiry is your path, there's another practice that accompanies "Who am I" that hasn't been mentioned. It is to remember "I'm not the doer." Being or Consciousness is using this form (body/mind) in the play of duality. When we remember that, identification with ego gets further eroded because with this thought comes "How does consciousness want to move through this situation" instead of I want way or the highway, etc! And if we do something great, we know that we were only the instrument (though it's great to know that you were clear enough to let it flow through you!)

This forum is great for presenting the vast array of practices available to us. Thanks to all of you who so generously share your thoughts and experience. It's all a process of evolution, no two paths are the same, but eventually we'll all get there. Inshallah

Though of course we are already that!


Last edited by Bhavya : July 1st, 2009 at 22:16.
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