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The ego... it's confusing!

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by stefanabovetheview, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Hey fellow wise ladies and gentlemen,
    Haven't been here for a while. It always brings me to life when I read this forum:D
    I was just reading ''A New Earth'' by Tolle and after reading that one you become aware of the ego, it has no power over you at that moment.
    So I decided to stop and become aware of it. But it was a never ending repeating pattern.
    I would stop and listen to the voice thats inside my head and go ''Hey! Thats the voice speaking inside my head!'', than I would realized that the voice that said, was also the voice, the ego, and say ''Here my ego is back again, let me stop and become aware of me and be'' and so on and on... My voice would comment on the previous voice until I gave up.
    Is that all the ego, playing tricks in my head? How does one simply become aware of himself and of the ego, to realize its powerless and illusiory?
    Thanks:)
     
  2. Karmoh

    Karmoh Member

    Hi stefanabovetheview,

    It seems that you have stumbled on a simple self-inquiry. Simply by asking who is taking you have understood that the ego is talking to itself. :)

    So ask yourself, are you your ego, the thinker of thoughts or the feeler of emotions?
    Believing this solidifies a sense of personal will or control over things that happen. This personal will or control is illusory. The ego is not really there. It is an illusion created by emphasizing the idea of a person at the heart of each experience. The ego is just a thought that comes and goes in our experience. When you consult the ego with the ego, the ego of course replies. Our ego’s love puzzles, so by giving the mind a paradox like who is talking in my head fuels the cyclic experience you mentioned. But by using the cyclic nature of this experience you can exhaust the ego (mind) in to allowing the real you to shine through, these are the ah-ah! moments you hear about

    who gave up you or your ego? :)

    The secret is not to try to get rid of the ego. Awareness is about simply seeing what is happening in your own, direct experience. Thought and all other appearances come and go of their own will.
    The critical thing to understand is when you first realize that the ego is playing tricks in your head; all that is happening is an appearance, that the appearance is not awareness itself, which is your real identity. In recognizing your identity as awareness, instead of believing that appearances contain your identity, identification with thoughts and other temporary appearances releases itself naturally. The clinging and identifying energy of the human ego relaxes.

    Peace :)
     
  3. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

    Weird. I just went out and bought "A New Earth" the other day and have been reading it, and came to a similar conclusion. My Ego talks about and to itself, all within itself in an attempt to keep "me", being the awareness of it all, confused. It's totally insane. Lol a thought came up that said wow I'm kind of schizophrenic. Then "I" had to snap out of that thought and see that it was just a thought. About the ego, but coming from the ego. So crazy, this predicament humans are in. How did this happen in the first place?
     
  4. Karmoh

    Karmoh Member

    Hi Chris,

    Insane is true.
    Imagine a mentally ill person standing on a corner, talking out loud, shaking their head, the talk is all gibberish and loud, dominating the corner. Someone would call the cops, everyone would move away or cross the street.
    But that is exactly what goes on in your head all your waking hours. Total nonsense! :eek:

    Because we believe in separation, new born babies and very young children mostly under 3 live in the moment, they see only what appears in front of them. As adults and family start to explain to these children right and wrong, this is called that, I’m Mummy, he’s Daddy, and this is a banana and so on. All this enforces in the young mind that objects are separate, hence separation is created. Before you could walk and talk did you know your name? or did someone tell you your name. ;)

    That is a very short personal view of what happens ;)


    peace :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Actually the ego is quite simple.

    All noise in your head is thoughts. Some of those thoughts are what we call "ego" because it is talking about you as if it is you.

    "I need to go to the bathroom"
    Even tho your blatter may be full to it's brim, it still is a lie.

    Because when you meditate, you know that thoughts come up by themselves, and if left alone, they go by and disappear by themselves.
    When serving them with attention, a new thought pops up about that previous thought, mind is serving you with more info or speculations about the topic.

    You can see the thoughts come up. The real You is who is looking.
    The thought hasn't been made by you.
    You can't be the "I" in that thought, as you observe the "I" thought come into existence in your mind.
    For all those years, you thought those thoughts were made by you, while in fact, they were made by mind, for you to observe.

    You can experience the real You during meditation, when mind slows down, or becomes completely silent, after you have kept your focus on a mantra or whatever for so long that mind has no new topics or suggestions to give.
    The feeling is at first experienced as a feeling of existence, of being present.

    Of constantly being who you are, even without thoughts.

    And as soon as a thought comes up again, or as we all say incorrectly, when you start thinking again ( this is incorrect because you don't do the thinking, right ? ) the silence is broken and it becomes harder to experience the sense of Self.

    But like I said, in essence, all silence is Self, all noise is Ego.
     
  6. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

    A great book (which I need to reread at some point), I downloaded these soon after and they were a nice accompaniment to it: Download the A New Earth Web Classes - Oprah.com

    I know what you mean; it’s a bit of a head screw when you notice what’s going on. I found I initially only assumed the seemingly negative stuff was the ego, but of course it’s the seemingly positive stuff too. I always find it hard (well near impossible) to stay present enough to catch myself frequently, but even being able to recognise and reflect on the work of the ego after the event, is in my eyes a positive step.

    Actually during my meditation today the following memory floated by so I thought I’d relay it as it seems fairly relevant. Some time ago my folks had a cat which unsurprisingly didn’t strike up a great friendship with next door’s dog. There was a see though mesh fence dividing the two back gardens and if the dog saw the cat he’d start barking and get all aggressive. Although not in immediate danger (the mesh fence was pretty sturdy), the cat would freak out and leg it.

    Later down the line my Gran needed to give up her cat as she was finding hard to look after him, so he came and lived with my folks too. This cat though had been brought up with dogs and had a very casual (but not reckless, he knew when to give it legs!) approach to them. Well, next doors dog would see them both in the garden and start to bark etc, the first cat would do the usual and peg it, but the second cat would just turn around and walk up quite close to the mesh fence and face the dog :cool:. This obviously hacked the dog right off!....It would start getting even more aggressive, the cat on the other hand would sometimes look at the dog or sometimes look away with a significant degree of indifference (in a way only cats seem to have…). In the end the dog would give up and walk off.

    Through time/experience the dog came to realise that the 2nd cat would acknowledge his presence but just watch him, so wouldn’t bark at him. The funny thing is even though the dog reacted like this to the 2nd cat, the 1st cat never learnt to react differently and continued to buy into the fear that the dog could ‘get him’, so would panic and run off.

    This just stuck me as a good analogy as the 2nd cat didn’t ignore the dog, in fact fully acknowledged him and watched him. The only difference between the cats was that one bought into the barking and one didn’t. If I’d realised the lesson at the time, then maybe my little furry master would have got his named changed to Mooji :D.
     
  7. M L K

    M L K Member

    Great story, Mr. Monkey. Maybe your next cat can be Mewji. :) Margaret
     
  8. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

    Ha ha ha! I totally missed that, ‘Mewji’ has had me chuckling for a while. All I can offer in return is that if I come across a mouse following the path of non-duality, then I’ll be calling it Eeeekhart :eek: :) :D
     
  9. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member



    Mewji. I just LOL'ed. On a more serious note I love that story and it illustrates all this perfectly!
     
  10. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Totally agree !

    Very nice example indeed. Mewji.:D
     
  11. Karmoh

    Karmoh Member

    Yep, Just purr-fect :eek: ....
     
  12. Thank you all!
    haha at the ''ah-ah'' moments Karmoh! I've experienced them before. It brings peace in me and realization that there are really no problems at all, until my ego starts to kick in.
    ''Insane is true.
    Imagine a mentally ill person standing on a corner, talking out loud, shaking their head, the talk is all gibberish and loud, dominating the corner. Someone would call the cops, everyone would move away or cross the street.
    But that is exactly what goes on in your head all your waking hours. Total nonsense!''
    This is so true. People would label him ''crazy'', but be unaware that theyre like him, except now aloud.

    Edwin, I do not understand how ''I need to go to the bathroom'' is a lie? How about saying ''My bladder is full and needs to release some liquid immidietly'':p, isnt that the truth?

    ''You can see the thoughts come up. The real You is who is looking.
    The thought hasn't been made by you.
    You can't be the "I" in that thought, as you observe the "I" thought come into existence in your mind.
    For all those years, you thought those thoughts were made by you, while in fact, they were made by mind, for you to observe.''
    This makes a lot of sense. The mind is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master.
    I had a debate with my brother, telling him that we are not our minds, that we are just the observers of the tool. He told me its false, and asked ''how do you know? How is it not true that your mind (in his terms, ''you'' or ''I'') cannot be aware that its thinking these thoughts? You are your body and your mind is your controller. You being the observer is a theory which cannot be proven. I'ts like discussing which religion is true, when infact it is a never ending debate and neither can be proven true'' I didn't know how to answer back.

    Interesting read Mr. Monkey. Do animals have an ego as well? Did that dog have a need to show power over the cats?
     
  13. Karmoh

    Karmoh Member

    Hi Stefan,
    Brothers...:D:cool:

    As an experiment, you could try and get your brother (if willing) to follow a simple inquiry and look into his experience and see whether mind (or body, or anything) really exists as a separate entity.

    If we take mind as the controller, In the course of a normal day, many thousands of thoughts within our mind arise. Yet notice that not one thought, standing alone, actually points to the mind as controller.
    Look for the mind that created each thought. Is it there?
    How about the thought, “my mind is thinking”
    How about the thought, “I’m having a bad day”
    Is any one of those thoughts pointing to a mind that actually created them, or controls them.
    If this separate mind controller is real, you ought to be able to find it. Or one of those thoughts should be pointing to the real controller. But none of them point to it. They simply arise to an impersonal awareness that sees them.

    So where is the real mind? Go look for it. Maybe it is one of the other many thoughts that arise. Maybe it’s a thought of the past or a thought of the future. Maybe the thought arises, “mind is a collection of all these thoughts?” But is mind that thought?

    Do any single thoughts refer to your actual mind? No, each is just a thought coming and going. If your mind as a controller is really something substantial, something truly existing, then it cannot be any temporary thought. If your mind thinks it’s a temporary thought, you are admitting that mind comes and goes.

    When you truly look, all you ever experience are more thoughts, one after the other, that seem to refer to an existence. You never actually experience the actual mind itself. In seeing, that you cannot find the mind and that all you find are more thoughts or experiences.
    So you can relax and allow thoughts to be and accept that mind just is... simple awareness.


    Not too confusing I hope, recently "I" tend to get carried away :):rolleyes:


    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  14. olmate

    olmate Member

    And why is this important to understand? Well, a dedicated practitioner seeks to enter a space deeper than thoughts and words can reach.

    There are many paths that can take you to this depth. That is Grace! But discipline is necessary. Why? Because this requires us to leave self behind. This means leaving behind those limitations with which we often identify ourselves and learning to be open to the limitless.

    When you reflect on walking this path, it takes nerve. Standing on the edge, leaning forward and stepping out. But as so many have attested over the centuries across so many faiths, it is a path which seems to be an essential part of each of our destiny's - whether we believe it or not.

    Nothing but the best...

    Olmate
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  15. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Also a lie !

    Are you your body, or are you the observer of the body ?
    Is that blatter something you own, or is it something you observe ?

    That doesn't change the fact that if you don't go to the toilet, your will pee your pants, but at least now you won't take the functions of your body personal.

    The same goes for your actions. Suppose you lose your temper with your brother, and you hit his face.
    Can you take responsibility for that action ? Do you know why you did that ?
    Did you even do it or did you observe the hitting and the anger ?

    And the observer in you, was he angry as well, or did the observer observe anger in the body ?

    And the feelings of remorse that arise afterwords, feeling bad that you hit your brother, are you feeling those feelings or are you observing the feelings ?

    Check out this very interesting experiment by David here:
    http://www.project-meditation.org/c...ation-experiment-settling-down.html#post22256
     
  16. Haha yeah, I told him that earlier, but he's identified with his mind:p He tried meditating and told me ''What the hell, I close my eyes and try to think about nothing, and after a few minutes I wake up and my neck is bent. I just fall asleep.'' I laughed and remembered when I didnt get meditation at first:p .
    Not confusing at all actually. I never used to understand what ego is, until I started reading A New Earth. Before that this would be very confusing.:)

    Yes, I realized the hardest part of it, as you said, is leaving everything behind. I guess when we get too identified with it, and realize that we have to leave everything behind, ''we'' think we will lose everything, that we will be no one, when infact we will be awesome:cool:

    This is very interesting! I seriously thought you were lying to me about that :p . It's funny how attached we are to the mind. Recently, when I start having negativity in my mind, I subconciously think it out loud. And then realize this resistance to it and go ''what was that?=/'' and proceed to laugh at it. Thanks for the link, i'll check it out.

    PEACE
     

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