1. Unfortunately The Project Meditation Community Forum is no longer active. Although registration and the creation of new posts not possible, you can still read and search the forum...

    If you are unable to find what you are looking for within the Project Meditation Community please check out our new Blog and/or our Facebook page.

Staying in the now

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by Panthau, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    LOL ! found another one for you about breathing:

    http://www.project-meditation.org/c...avorite-least-favorite-levels-3.html#post8922

    Check out the date I posted that.
    This is a kind of Vipassana meditation actually.
     
  2. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    To answer my own question, which could come first - release of emotions or the "now".

    The now is a state of openess, where no attachment is possible. So its impossible to attach to emotions/feelings/thoughts while staying in the now, but its possible to stay there for an amount of time, still attached to something when you come out of it. Thats what is called meditation, isnt it? :)

    Thanks Edwin, i know my ego likes to hear itself talk.
     
  3. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Wow.

    I understand what you are trying to say, but I am itching all over from all the concepts being thrown at me in just a few sentences :p

    Can I just leave it ?

    :rolleyes:

    Noooooooo of course not. I can't help myself ( you see, there is no I )

    Here goes:
    I know you understand the concept, but you can't stay out of the now
    What time ? There is only Now. All that you call time doesn't exist except in your head. Past and Future are concepts, unreal, thoughts.
    Now you lost me again. Still attached to something when you get out of what ? The Now ? You mean you die after meditation ? You see that is the only way to escape from the Now. Meditation is about shutting up the very mind that is screwing up the truth with concepts like is happening in the text you wrote. All you have to do is not believe what mind feeds you and that is instant enlightenment. And when you lose it, why care, it doesn't matter what you were lost in 20 seconds ago, it matters what is happening Now.

    Take a look at your hands for 5 seconds. Count them.

    This field in which you are looking, no matter how many seconds pass, you are always Now.
    You are now, I am now, Franz is now, the world is now, the universe is now.
    Nothing of it exists one second ago, nothing exists one second into the future.
    We are all one without a second.

    Franz is right, it doesn't matter if you are aware of it or not, You are always Now. It's impossible not to be. No image, thought, projection can change that !

    Don't worry I am not mad at you or even bitching at you.
    I am only bitching at your ego. Drop it and feel the love ! :)
     
  4. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Haha thanks Edwin. I wouldnt be worried about you beeing mad at me, i think thats not possible because you know it would be wasted energy.

    So all we´re talking about is useless, im enlightened already! :)

    Its just a matter how you turn around the words... i think we´re talking about the same thing, but my words are not exact as yours. Of course theres nothing else as the now, but the realisition of that hasnt happend to me yet.

    You really think im ready to drop the ego? Something that people needed 30 years of meditation or more to become "enlightened"? I feel like far away from that... im so identified with my mind & thoughts, even if i remember myself every few minutes. Dont know what it takes to lift that identification! I would love to lift it and drop my ego, but theres an instance in me that doesnt like all this. Its swearing and wants to be left alone, defiant and hurt like a child. Could that be my ego??

    Btw, my last post is what i experienced, so it is true for "me" - maybe not exactly described with words :p

    Thanks again for your effort!
     
  5. GilesC

    GilesC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,856
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yes. We are all knowledge, bliss, love.... everything. We just don't see it because we are looking. ;)

    Are you there 5 seconds ago? No, you are here, now. 5 seconds ago is in the past and no longer exists.
    Are you there 5 seconds into the future. No, you are here, now. 5 seconds in the future hasn't happened yet.
    You can't be anwhere else but here in the now. The past and the future are just a projection of your mind.

    Only you know that. In truth, yes we are all ready to drop the ego, but you have to drop the ego to know that. ;)

    Yep, that's your ego all right. It's holding on to you and making you believe you are it.


    Hugs

    Giles
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yep !

    Weird huh ? Still, before it all became clear with me, that very thought did help me out. I could stop beating myself up for still listening to the thoughts.
    You have to start to think just as radical. I am not constantly talking to you because I don't understand you. We have to assume that dropping the ego has made me less stupid instead of otherwise :p.

    When you start to think as radical as I am showing you in all the "corrective" answers I gave you, realisation will come.
    Are you ready ? I don't know. Is your resistance ego ? YES !!
    You are ready when you are ready. It happens now. If it doesn't happen now, then it will happen now.
    I know this doesn't seem to make sense. But it is truth. It can only happen Now. Everything happens Now. It can't happen in 20 or 30 years from now. That is a concept, a construct of the mind. Mind doesn't know. It never does.
    Self knows. You see a bird, you know it. Then mind comes and tells you that is a bird, a robin. But what has that got to do with it ? You allready knew it was a bird, you KNOW this, before you thought about it.

    If you are free of thought for 2 seconds, you are fully enlightened. This happens in Now. A thought comes up, you are not enlightened. You drop the thought, you are enlightened again. Why remember the second that you thought of something ? You passed that station, now it is a memory, a construct of mind. Let it pass while you stay focused on the Now.
    Is it really that simple ? Yes !

    If you say to me
    that is a construct of thought.
    How are you feeling Now ? That is all that is important. Of course mind will want to hold on to that thought. But if you let it go, how can it be a problem ? "What's wrong with right Now unless you think about it ?" would sailor Bob say.

    "Forgeta-bout it" would Mooji say in his attractive Jamaican accent ;).

    Mooji once gave the example of a person telling you that you have a problem with your house. All the plumming is bad and it will have to be replaced.
    Oh no, what a disaster, how much will that cost ? 3000 euro's ? Oh my God, well I can't help it, change it, here is your money.

    There is a very big chance that you won't react like that.

    More likely, you will get a second opinion, ask around, get several offers and maybe you might even have someone tell you that that guy tried to pull one on you, and the house is fine.

    You don't have to believe every thought, just like you don't immediately believe that guy telling you your house needs a big fix-up.
    When the thought comes up, it fires up a whole range of emotions to back up the importancy of it's "problem". But you can't be sure if the thought is trying to pull one on you. Why buy it ? Investigate. If the thought is about future or past, it has to be a concept, and can't be true. "But that is about 95% of my thought !" you might say.
    See why you will feel much lighter when you stop believing those thoughts ?

    The quickest way to stop believing those thoughts, is to see that the person they are adressed to, doesn't exist. A thought telling a thought what the problem is. Why would that have to do with what you really are, the SEEer ?

    Only when you start to think as radical as I have been showing you in this thread, to filter out every word that mind feeds you and examine it for truth, can you really see how much bull mind tries to feed you.
    Don't compromise, never again.
    Of course I knew what you were trying to say in your previous post. But I tried to show you how to filter your own words. I think I have given you enough examples in this thread to give you a general idea of how to attack the ego now. Read it back from the start !

    See what mind tries to feed you, and investigate the "person" those thoughts are supposed to adress.
     
  7. Franz

    Franz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Hey guys! Thanks for that link about breathing Edwin. That's exactly what I've been doing. Breathing first before anything.

    Panthau, I used to dwell alot on staying in the "now" and how to make it all work and sometimes I still do from time to time. Its like my ego attaches itself to what it believes is the "now" and if I'm not feeling great or peaceful it will start thinking of ways to get there and basically I have an ego that is telling myself in my head that it needs to get rid of itself which then turns into a big mess and feels like chaos going on in my mind. It starts looking at every thought and in reality what is going on is it feels like it's combating itself. For instance, this is the crazy dialogue I hear in my head sometimes...

    ok just breath and relax and observe

    wait is that my ego talking or my true self

    all thought is ego so it must not be true

    waits thats impossible, there are different forms of thought. How can I tell which is which?

    just breath and it will stop and you will feel peaceful again

    why is it that breathing isnt working this time

    maybe my ego has attached itself to my breathing practice...why does it feel like now I'm breathing to get me somewhere?

    breathing is not working anymore, its not going to work. if youre breathing
    to try and get to the 'Now" then you are trying to get somewhere.

    (I begin to feel so frustrated at this point, then my thoughts become extremely negative)

    This is stupid!!! I'm never going to get this right. Maybe I'm going crazy!

    Wait the whole point is to not try...why I am trying so hard. How do i try to not try?!?!?

    I just want to feel peaceful again. [email protected]@@@@@M!

    (then I try to watch and observe and sometimes it doesn't work)

    The only thing I can do at this point is listen and observe even if feels like it's not working. Just be aware. It's there. Even when I do this it doesn't just disappear. I feel frustrated at that moment. This actually happened yesterday. Every time this happens though I gain alittle more understanding on the nature of the ego. What is happening here is the ego will try to use its problem solving skills to solve this problem but has no clue the problem is it itself.

    Think about it. Our ego mimics a cpu. It can calculate, workout equations, store memory, at a very fast rate and is very impressive. But the one thing a cpu cannot do is step outside of itself and describe itself. It is an extremely useful tool...but that's it.

    This can be tricky though because at times I will be randomly going about my day and thoughts continue to formulate all day and then one specific thought will rise. "Wait is this voice my true self or the ego? How can I tell? How am I ever going to get this right?" Is this higher thought or ego? So how do we differentiate? I honestly have no clue. But is trying to differentiate and distinguish lower thought from higher thought a task the ego is trying to "solve" because it is programmed to solve problems?

    Can you see this whole problem of trying to stay in the "now" the ego has created? The mind is trying to solve something the mind will never ever be able to solve. As soon as we try to solve something you know its the egoic mind. Let it solve stuff when it somes to work, building a dog house, correcting grammar on a post you are going to make on this forum. When it comes to staying in the "now" and feeling peaceful and harmonious just give up. You're not going to get there through trying to figure it out with your mind. At that moment right when you give up. You are there.

    I am tired of trying so I am no longer going to attempt to become enlightened or stay in the "now". When I reach this point something happens. I cannot explain it. Something changes.

    Just thought I would go a little deeper on my experience. I don't know what it all means, whether its right or wrong or the correct way. Who knows? Who cares? One thing I know is always reliable is my breathing. Its always there for me. It never leaves. Its always present. All I have to do is pay attention to it.

    (have been at work for an hour and haven't got anything done LOL! Sorry for the grammatical errors. I'll correct later. I don't even know if any of this makes any sense.)
     
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Took me a while to make my previous post, so I missed Giles' post.

    But he basically says the same ( how could it be different ) so now Pan has 2 ego-bashers ;) YAY !

    2 for the price of one.... or actually none... while we are one...

    Great contri Giles :)
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Franz,

    There are no thoughts from your "higher Self".

    You don't have to know the difference.

    ALL thoughts are from the mind.

    However, if you look at them with focus on your true self, it is easy to recognise which thought is usefull for you, and which one isn't.
    Self is wordless. It just knows.

    If Self sees a thought, it sees it, and knows.
    Your Self is the editor of your thoughts.

    Just breathe first, then react to thought. Creating a distance in time. As soon as the thought has passed, it is over, and can only stay as a construct of mind. If you think the thought is bogus, drop it. If you think it is usefull, use it. But all from your sense of I AM.

    Like when bumping your toe on a table, if you count to 10 first, you won't swear or kick the table out of anger ?
    Treat every thought the same way. Count to ten ( or breathe ) and see if that thought is still significant for you. If not, drop it. If yes, use it. Mind is a tool that is at your service. :)

    It is really simple to differentiate. if it is "noise" it is mind.
    If it is silence, it is Self. Self can't think in words. It can't think. That is why mind was created. If Self could think, why bother creating a mind, that is waste of energy, and waste of energy is just "not done" in the grand scheme of life.
    Since Self is silence, it can't "order" your mind around. So, mind is programmed to just blurt out whatever it thinks of if it thinks it is important. And then Self is supposed to filter our the usefull stuff. But we have been programmed to believe everything mind tells us.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  10. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Haha! I got you!

    I did understood it a while ago intellectual, and wondered where this might lead - as my mind couldnt understand more, because theres not more to understand.

    Still i wondered if its possible to train my focus to stay in the now for 100%, i really doubt so. But you guys seem stay with your focus in the now, so it must be possible.

    Thanks for your post Franz & Giles & Edwin, ill read them over & over the next years :)
     
  11. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I don't keep my focus on the now for 100%. I keep my focus on thoughts as well. But when I am done with the thoughts, I forget about them. Thoughts need to be adressed when they appear in the Now. And I act upon them or ignore them. But I don't have to beat myself up anymore about it. I just focus on the Now again and forget about it. :) Because there is no I to blame.

    Mind construct ! ;)
     
  12. Franz

    Franz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Wow Edwin! Can you please just write a book already? Do you think it's possible for my ego to creep in the back door and start categorizing thoughts as useful or not? That's what it feels like. It begins to react to thoughts like it reacts to an outside situation. It judges whether the thought is good or bad then starts to go crazy. One thing I have done lately which may sound weird is listen to my thought from my stomach. I can feel the space between me and my thoughts more this way.

    Panthau, at this point I really dont know what I'm doing. I don't even know if I am staying in the "now" or keeping my attention in the "now" or whatever. One thing I started saying to myself today is "I AM", then I begin to breath rather than thinking of whether or not I'm in the "now" or present. I know I AM here, right now. Thats the only thing I know.

    Edwin...I can see the similarities between presence and the law of attraction. The only way to practice the law of attraction is if you are present. The only way to observe your thoughts to differentiate them from useful thoughts and negative thoughts is by being present. So when we notice a not so useful thought and LOA says to plant of seed of good thought...what are we doing? Is it Self being able to recognize which thoughts are what and Self knowingly planting a seed of good thought which is typically a "thank you" which Eckhart Tolle says to do. I notice when I focus on good thoughts they are typically things that I am grateful for. My family, friends, job...these are all here now...not something I am focusing on or worried about in the future. Is this another way to feel Self and the "now"? By being grateful?

    Then by being grateful for what you have now you can manifest what means alot to you. You have to imagine and daydream for what you would like but be careful not to create the feeling of want. You just to let the Universe know what it is. Once you send the message out forget about it, know it will come, and go about your day feeling grateful (in the "now"). I have had so many great things happen to me since I started practicing this. I mean, not little things but real obvious things. What is your take on this?

    Look around you. Every little thing that is there first started with a thought. My cpu, my desk, the lights...this is one thing that is obvious. These are all things that required creativity at some point. Creativity comes from Self. The mind cannot be creative. You said all noise are thoughts and are from the mind. So is mind a link between you and the Universe as well as houses the ego? So when we are differentiating useful thought from negative egoic thought where does the useful thought come from. Negative egoic thought obviously comes from the preprogrammed nature fo the ego. What about the good thoughts? Wait!!! Can the good thoughts be our true nature (Self) trying to shine through the clouds of our ego? Good thoughts seem to always reflect on something present or here and "now". Present and self go hand in hand. So once we allow no more power to the ego are we left with our true nature (self). We are in the '"now"...grateful, loving, harmonious, peaceful. These are all related to Love. Love is the basis of our true nature. hmmmmmmm...


    (3 hours down, haven't done anything at work. LOL!)
     
  13. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Haha unbelievable! After all this conversation, i just dropped it and concentrated on my breath again, as i was walking to a friend 500m from me. Suddenly EVERYTHING had the same quality for me... normaly everything has its own quality, colours, buildings and so on. It felt all the same and there was space, because there were no thoughts. It felt so beautiful! The beauty of what is!

    Wow!
     
  14. Franz

    Franz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Wow Panthau me too. Just right now I was listening in on my thought and started to listen to the gaps between my thoughts. Have you tried this? Maybe focusing on the silence between thoughts take the attention from thought itself and to the silence. I think I will write a list of some things I do...

    Breath from stomach and follow the breath
    say "thank you"
    Feel my inner self (hands, feet, whole body)
    silence between thoughts

    Eckhart says to do all of these things and so far they seem to work. From personal experience switching it up works better.
     
  15. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Haha time to awake, isnt it :)

    Didnt knew our inner self has hands :) :)
     
  16. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Franz

    Live by this rule:

    K.I.S.S.

    Keep It Simple Stupid !

    You are overconceptualising.

    Concepts are made by mind, mind doesn't understand crap about the eternal, all concepts are wrong.

    Just breathe !
    Just be in the Now !

    be happy with the Now ! All these thoughts, all these questions ! forget about the mind allready !


    Now back to quoting you. If you don't mind I won't answer all of the questions and claims. There just isn't enough time !:p
    I feel this Quietness in my stomach area as well. Not a bad place to start !

    LoA is a system designed for those troubled by ego to bypass the ego in order to achieve something wanted by ego.

    Letting go of attachment to thought means no attachment to ego ( duh )

    Wanting something is thought. Desire is thought. If you are not attached to the thought ( including the "I" thought ), there are no crazy desires anymore.
    This will save the world in the end.
    Stop doubting Self. Stop trying to figure out Self. Just be. It is impossible to see your Self. And let go of the concepts good and bad.
    Trust Self or God to know what is best for you.

    And now to adress all those silly concepts:

    Says who ? You have to rely on the creativity of the mind in order to achieve something !
    What have you done anyway ? Everything is started by thought, you just said so yourself. Are you the creator of thoughts ? no ! They come up by themselves ! So I will ask you again: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ANYWAY ?
    Self does absolutely nothing but observe. Mind creates everything.
    This is what I mean with over-conceptualising.
    "I" or "me" doesn't exist. That is just a false belief that the thoughts that come up from the mind are who you are. But you are not. You are the one observing those thoughts.

    The thoughts can come up all they want, and they can be useful or not. Nothing wrong with that. As long as there is no "I" attached to that thought that you believe you are.
    Pfffff... now you are completely lost in mind... Good ? Bad ? Those are concepts of the mind !
    I think you better stop listening to all those thoughts and theories, and go back to the Now you are talking about. Were you concentrating on your breath when you wrote all this ?
     
  17. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I have to laugh so much. Now this 3-second-enlightement of course left its impression
    and now im trying to get somewhere which of course is pointless. Im now forgetting
    what i did 5 seconds ago because im so concentrated on my breath. LOL
     
  18. Franz

    Franz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    wow! I will have to re-read this a couple of times. I guess what is happening here is I am studying many different viewpoints. The "Now", Law of Attraction, metaphysics. In other areas thought is looked at as being a powerful wonderful gift we have been given, but stepping away from the preprogrammed way of thinking is the goal. Some preach complete disattachment from thought. Some speak of using thought to create the reality of their dreams. Thought is powerful in my opinion, and I feel like there's more to thought then we know. From our experience thought can be the cause of pain, discomfort, and negativity, but also the seed for peace and harmony, and happiness within. We were given thought for a reason. We just have to figure it out and find this out on our own journey. Observing thoughts is the first step. Disattachment from certain harmful thoughts that aren't good for you is another key element. It is scientifically proven thought effects the matter around you. Look up some stuff on quantum physics and you will be amazed. Thought is powerful and we are just barely now touching the iceberg on our true potential in my opinion.

    All in all I have been learning so much from each philosophy but how to apply it personally is I guess our own journey.

    I do conceptualize alot. LOL!

    Panthau...check out Eckhart Tolle's exercise to feel the inner hands. It's a great tool. Similiar to the breathing exercise, it kind of helps recenter yourself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  19. Franz

    Franz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    a couple more things before I call it a day...here are some helpful quotes from Eckhart Tolle.

    "As far is inner transformation is concerned, there is nothing you can do about it. You cannot transform yourself...All you can do is creat space for the tansformation to happen, for grace and love to enter."

    "The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much that you use your mind wrongly—you usually don't use it at all. It uses you."

    "all the things that truly matter — beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace — arise from beyond the mind"

    "Love, joy, and peace cannot flourish until you have freed yourself from mind dominance"

    "Nobody’s life is entirely free of pain and sorrow. Isn’t it a question of learning to live with them rather than trying to avoid them?

    "When you are present, you can allow the mind to be as it is without getting entangled in it. The mind in itself is a wonderful tool. Dysfunction sets in when you seek your self in it and mistake it for who you are"

    I wonder if someday we will all meet and discuss this over a couple of beers. Talk to you soon.
     
  20. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Franz, just drop it. Really! Something unbelievable awaits us,
    and then theres enough space to find out what thoughts can do for us :)

    I just found out that i can stop thinking LOL wow didnt knew that my meditation effort
    was bringing me somewhere.
     

Share This Page