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resistance

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by ali56, May 15, 2012.

  1. ali56

    ali56 Member

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    Hi

    I am on lifeflow 8 but am finding am very emotional every morning when I wake. Have posted this problem before and was told it could be because i am resisting How do I work through this. Sorry if this sounds pathetic but am struggling at present.

    Thanks

    Ali x
     
  2. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi Ali,

    doesn't sound at all pathetic and you have no reason to apologise :)

    Meditation can bring up repressed feelings and sensations, sometimes even things we didn't know we were carrying around with us. Bringing up these hidden things can give the impression to a person that they just "came out of nowhere". You may well be sub-consciously resisting whatever is coming up to be released. Whenever you feel any discomfort during or outside of meditation, it simply means you are resisting and it is the resistance itself that is causing the discomfort.

    The solution to resisting is to simply and unemotionally observe the sensation with unattached curiosity. This may be a tight feeling in your stomach or some other kind of discomfort. Don't follow the thoughts you are having, just observe the sensation you have somewhere in your body. You can observe anytime a negative or anxious emotion presents itself. It is coming to the surface, giving you the opportunity to let it go. Until we learn how to do this, we resist, supress and hold on to the emotion.

    As you let go of these hampering emotions you will become more and more free.

    We all have the peaceful place within us. You just need to let go of the burdens of negative emotions and you will feel lighter and lighter. Look forward to hearing how you progress and wish you an abundance of peace and joy :) :) :)
     
  3. ali56

    ali56 Member

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    Hi pollyanna
    Thank you for your response makes sense.

    Ali x
     
  4. olmate

    olmate Member

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    Sometimes it takes time and work to distill deep seated issues. Try to look upon it as a healing process. Takes a bit of time to heal things that may have built up over years or extended periods sometimes. View it as a positive, perhaps the path to freedom.
    Olmate
     
  5. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

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    Hi Ali,

    I can find myself being dragged down by negative emotions and (as others have mentioned above) it has helped me to simply observe them (when I remember too :eek: :D) rather than get bound up in them.

    For me, one of the easiest ways to remember/picture this is through an analogy Edwin posted on a different thread. It helped me, I hope its of use/help to you too :).

     
  6. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    Mr. Monkey wrote:

    "Allow yourself to become engulfed with the pain and anxiety, and be prepared to experience it for as long as is needed."

    I don't think I can do that.

    And I hate myself for being a coward.
     
  7. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

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    Hi Samsaraspath,

    Reflecting on your post made me consider if I am always open with and accepting of my feelings every time and the fact is I’m not, and I’d be surprised if most people are. At times, last week in fact, I was feeling really rubbish, caught up in emotions and all I wanted was the feelings to go away, I wanted to shut the door (and gave it a damn good try too :mad: :D).

    I put the post by Edwin up because I thought it was a great articulation of the reality of emotions, they come/go and we should ideally notice them, acknowledge them and embrace them rather than try to ignore/reject them. I occasionally catch myself thinking I should be able to do this all the time too, but on the reality is the post is something to aspire to rather than something you should be perfect at doing each and every time.

    During occasions of feeling bad about not being perfect at this (or anything else) sometimes I’m able to catch my mind/thoughts, take whatever club its beating me with (In the case the ‘should club’, ie “you should be able to do this perfectly”) out of its hand, press the perspective reset button and look at the same situation through a positive, but realistic perspective.

    So, looking at this a bit differently, for me the truth is we shouldn’t kick our own ar*es for not wanting to jump in the deep end of the pool all the time. We should pat ourselves on the back for getting in the water and starting to wade up to the deep end, appreciating that it’s something not everyone is able/willing to do.

    :)
     
  8. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    Being a perfectionist, all-or-nothing, personality.... There is no point in doing anything if you can't perfect it.

    Somewhere in my head I recognise this as impossible.... but the other 99.99% of the grey-matter disagrees.

    I wouldn't enter martial arts unless I was relatively sure at some point I could kick Bruce-Lees a$$. I wouldn't take up painting unless there was much better than even odds that one or more of my paintings would hang next to a Picasso or a Rembrant. I wouldn't take singing lessons, unless I was sure at some point someone already famous would be jealous of my ability.

    Life is a game, there's no point in playing to lose.
     
  9. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

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    OK, well I guess we'll just have to agree to differ on that one, no great shakes :D. I’m curious with what you say here though:

    What do you win?
    What happens if you lose? :eek:
     
  10. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    May I recommend you read the book "The four agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz. Certianly the 4th agreement would seem pertinent to what you say here.

    ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  11. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    @Mr. Monkey:

    I never said I was sure I was correct. In some part of my brain I know I am being insane. But the over-whelming conviction is one that the only choice is to be the best or there was no point in trying.

    If you work your whole life towards a goal, and don't reach that goal, you should have pro'ly tried something else. (Again, to restate my earlier caveat(s): I understand that most don't see it this way. I understand that it isn't (necessarily) the healthiest way to live. I can't figure out how to change my mind. What is the point in trying and failing? (once or twice on the way to success, sure, but to die still trying? I can think of nothing sadder)

    What do you win? The only imortality there is: a note in a history book. What do you lose? The non-existance of the millions apon millions who have died over the centuries that you've never heard of.


    @Giles:


    I read the fourth agreement (from Google) and skipped the book.

    I do always try my best. And still the self-judgement, self abuse, and regret remain.

    I don't mean to sound harsh - or rather, I don't want to, it pro'ly will anyway:

    This is more advice that tells me nothing. It's like those self-help sites who promise "7 easy steps to emotional health."

    Step 1. Learn to love yourself.
    Step 2. .......


    Where the F_ck are the instructions for step 1?

    Simply do your best and you will avoid self-judgement, etc., etc.

    It is always my best. And it is always wanting.
     
  12. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    Sorry ali56

    I'm sorry for taking over your thread.
     
  13. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

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    Update:Typical! I spent a load of time earlier tippy tappying out all of below, only to find something which sums up what I am trying to say much more clearly and concisely. Its only a 5 min clip, but I would recommend listening to it all as it seems very applicable to you.

    Eckhart Tolle - End of Suffering

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I’ve done this in a bit of a rush and written far more than I intended to, so some bits may come across a bit blunt, it’s not intended that way but I don’t have the time to tart it up at the mo.

    To kick off I want to point out that I’m no authority on meditation or non-duality. Also I’m not coming from a place where the angels sing harmonies in my ears each morning, the sun is always shining in my heart, I skip with unbridled joy towards the future with a clear objective/perspective and only positive things to keep me company.

    Trying hard at something is worthwhile, motivation is a good thing. Repeatedly beating yourself up about not being the best and setting unobtainable goals is unproductive, limiting and unnecessary. So is never starting anything unless you can be sure of becoming “the best”. Just imagine if you’d had that outlook as a kid, you wouldn’t have learnt to walk, talk, eat, laugh, smile etc., unless of course you’re the best in the World at these things now?

    So having a stress filled, worried and anxious life is worth a bit of ink on a page? Your name will remain in history, YOU won’t . So for me, that sounds like a bit of a pants prize, especially as it took repeated suffering/pain/fear to get there. Maybe a nicer prize would be to get a holiday from the voice/thoughts/feelings within you that tell you immortality and being the best is all that matters and your nothing without them?

    My advice would be to investigate this, why are you being insane? If your mind/thoughts only serve you the best way possible, surely you could never have this type of thought/feeling?

    This is the bit that takes a bit of gamble, a bit of trust… what do you think/feel would happen if you started to ignore these thoughts/feelings of perfectionism? Even worse, what would happen if ALL your thoughts stopped for a while? What would be left? :eek: Have a ponder on this.

    Why does it matter if you’re remembered? I won’t be and I couldn’t care less! Lol :D. You’re born, you live and then you die that’s an inescapable fact. The countdown is ticking for the Earth, the Sun and also the Universe. Nothing is permanent – so a few lines in a book will make no difference if there is no Universe for it to exist in…. nothing is immortal…. No wishy-washy rubbish, scientific fact.

    You can do your best and you can do it with or without self-judgement – it’s the self-judgement that’s kicking your butt. Why are you so scared of not judging yourself and others? What will happen if you didn’t?

    A while ago I started reading “The compassionate mind” by Paul Gilbert and although I still haven’t finished it I found it a good read and it came to mind that it may be something useful for you, if you let yourself be open to it.

    It seems to be the key to your peace if finding out what is behind your need to “be the best” and your judgements of yourself and others when they don't meet these (frankly unrealistic) aims……

    You may get some better advice from other members of the forum, but hopefully some of above is food for thought (or even better, food for observation of thought ;)).

    Cheers, Paul
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  14. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    hmmmm

    @Mr. Monley:

    I'll need a day or two to digest this, and figure out some (honest) answers to your questions, and try to figure out what my issue with Mr. Tolle (or any of these gurus/religions/etc.) is.

    Please don't anyone reply to me or ask me anything untill I post again. My OCD won't allow me to not answer, and I'll get side-tracked.
     
  15. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Then don't read the following until you are ready... it's not going anywhere and it can wait...
    .
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    This is the problem if you just skip the basis of things though and expect a quick fix without going into the understanding of it. You can be as harsh as you like, but it's not harsh towards me, only to yourself and you recognise that harshness that you are giving yourself (even if you try and reflect that outwards as if you are being harsh to someone else).

    So, agreement 4 is "always do your best" and you say that you do. Yet previously you say "There is no point in doing anything if you can't perfect it." which contradicts that. Just because you can't be perfect at something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. If there is a need to do something then you should do your best at it (the 4th agreement) but even if that doesn't yield perfection, at least you know you did your best.... you couldn't do any better. It doesn't have to be perfection... there's not really anything that you can call perfect... that's just a construct in your mind and if you try and achieve it you'll spend your whole life trying. Just do your best.

    Yes, I agree, there's a lot of "self help" stuff out there, some more complex than others. The 4 agreements are actually a simple model to try and live your life by. You can choose to ignore such things, or you can choose to give them a go... that's entirely your choice and nobody else is (excuse my french) going to give a sh!t one way or another what you choose... it's entirely up to you. If you don't like that model, try another one... but somehow you've got to find a model that works for you, and don't rely on other people to do it for you. It really is about self responsibility and knowing that if you want happiness then that happiness comes from within yourself (sometimes you can't see it, but IT IS IN THERE! that's a fact)... don't expect others to impart happiness on you.... just as people believe a car makes them angry if it breaks down... the car cannot actually impart anger on a person... the anger only comes from within their self.

    So when you say...

    The instructions for step 1 start with "accept that only you have the power to help yourself, it's your issues and you are the one that is going to change it".

    When you're ready, you'll choose to do it. I did and there's no reason you can't.


    Hugs


    Giles
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  16. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    When you're ready, you'll choose to do it. I did and there's no reason you can't.


    I am ready. I am choosing. I need help.
     
  17. samsaraspath

    samsaraspath Member

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    Ego

    In working through this latest attempt at understanding what is going on with my"self" I find the term ego coming up as if it is a second person living inside me, that I've somehow let take control.

    Can someone take a stab at describing for me what would be in (or could be, if it was developed or allowed to) charge if the Ego isn't (or shouldn't be allowed to be) in charge?

    I think part of me is resisting this idea of two "entities" being in my brain. As far as I'm aware, there's just "me."

    What am I missing?

    Or is the "Ego" still "me" but just "Me" misinformed about "Me?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  18. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    I recognise and can relate to many things in this thread... from a chapter in my life which seems so long ago.

    I remember the seed of hope that was planted in my mind approximately 20 years ago when I believed success was only for others. I remember thinking that some others could achieve success but I wasn't good or clever enough.

    I read books and listened to audio books and tapes and wondered if it was possible for an ordinary woman like me who was not disciplined (my perspective only at that time) not confident and had low self-esteem. I kept reading and listening to successful people. Some I loved listening to, a few voices were difficult to listen to - thank goodness I overcame the issue of their voice or I may have missed much important information.

    I knew what I wanted and much more importantly, I knew WHY I wanted it. I had always thought that my constant sub-conscious non stop tape was who I was - I had no idea that I could change parts of the tape to serve me better.

    Excitement and frustration were constantly sparring with each other within me as I became determined. I read about burning your bridges and how you couldn't reach 2nd base without taking your foot off 1st base but I didn't really understand - I was really intense, and - I not only had my own well engrained perspectives to contend with - I had other people's as well.

    My dream became so strong, I remember thinking one day that I wish I could go back to how I used to be when I didn't know that I could be in control of my future - I guess this was fear - but there was no turning back.

    I made some mistakes and some progresses and realised successful people fail more than anyone, simply because they take action. I developed an "I will, Until" attitude and as I spoke passionately with my children about making it happen, I did end my predictions saying, I hope I am not saying all this while leaning on a walking stick at the age of 83 :eek: That being said, I would have strived until the end because anything else for me would have been just settling for.

    Your perspective/belief system sees the world from a filter - anything that does not fit with your perspectives is filtered out or resisted against. Once you know you can change some of your perspectives you really can be the captain of your ship.

    I wish you much peace and joy :) :) :)
     
  19. Mr Monkey

    Mr Monkey Member

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    My take on it is something like this, but be warned, it’s quite a long take on it ;).

    Well all I can say is that it’s not your mind thats ‘in charge’….its hard to describe it without saying things like “that which observes”, which probably sounds all rather mumbo jumbo to you at the moment.

    So perhaps try the following experiment out for 10 mins before reading the rest of the thread, and then you can directly call on the experience to see if it makes sense with regard to the rest of what I say. Always best to test the theory yourself and make your own conclusions :).

    Experiment: Set an alarm (one without a loud alarm, otherwise it may give you a bit of a shock) for 10 mins and then lay on your bed and close your eyes, take a few long and slow breaths and just lay there. Spend your timing watching your thoughts and feeling your emotions .

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Rest of thread below.....
    ------------------------------------------------------







    I suspect (and hope) you’ll have noticed or observed that your thoughts and feelings come and go, they will have moved into your consciousness, maybe provoking a reaction “That’s a nice/nasty thought/emotion” etc. and then drifted off. Sometimes they come back sometimes they don’t, but the key things is to recognise they are all transient.

    So, my question to you is, if they always change how can they be YOU? Aren’t YOU what observes these things, rather than the things themselves because otherwise surely you’d appear and disappear too :confused:.

    You are what watches, what observes everything in your life. How do you know when feel anger? How do you know when you are happy? How do you know what you’re thinking? What do you emotions appear in? What do your thoughts appear in? There must be something behind the thoughts, feelings and sensations through which these observations take place. That is YOU, the bit that is always there observing – the rest is you mind building mental constructs and generating emotions within that observing presence.

    Hopefully the above has shown that there are not two entities, there is the mind made mental construct that is perceived within the observing presence.

    But let’s zero in a little bit, just who is this ‘me’?

    Your parents gave you a name when you were born and since then you’ve mind has attached all your experiences, viewpoints and achievements/failures to this label, this mental construct which you've fully bought into. Not only this but you judge this mental construct, and it can be a huge success, better in comparison with the mental constructs you hold of others (yeah, feels good! whooohoo :D), or it can be really bad, much worse than the constructs you have of others (woe is me, I feel rubbish! boooohoo :(). Perhaps it’s worse than some, better than others? Perhaps it just depends on circumstance, I got this job so I MUST be better them HIM, or I lost my job I MUST be worse the HER thus allowing you to have a long surf on the emotion waves of circumstantial based judgement.

    As a side note, you (and I) mainly perceive others as thought constructs, you’ll even have a mental construct of me (No, I'm much better looking than that :p) and everyone else in your life. Which in turn, makes things seem even more silly; because your mental construct of you, is different to your Mum’s mental construct of you, yours Dad’s, your friends, workmates etc. So even at this point, who are you? Everyone seems to have a different version of you….:confused:

    Anyhow, the funny things is, this ‘me’ has a party trick, it can disappear – Pfff! :eek: Into a cloud of smoke, forgotten, gone. If the thoughts stop, where does (or can) this mental construct go? :confused:

    For instance when I played football during my lunch hour at work, I would be so absorbed in the game I would forget about work and just react naturally to the game, absorbed fully in the experience. I had no worries, fears, regrets, deadlines, stresses, my mind was suspended and I was just reacting to life naturally. I didn’t realise at the time but it was simply that the mental construct of ‘me’ was gone. In essence I was engaging with my life at that moment directly, my focus was on the game, there was no space for my mind to construct/project my past or future, which it could attach to ‘me’, which it could then judge – provoking whatever emotion (happy, sad, fearful etc).

    You may have had a similar experience through sport, music or even chatting to someone who is simply enchanting. The concept of time seems to disappear, you would is devoid of judgment and thought, your just there, in the moment – when being talk about being “in the flow” or “in the moment”, this is what they’re referring too.

    So, what happens if you remove the thoughts? During the football game I didn’t disappear, collapse or go crazy running of down the road with my arms flailing. I just did what I did, reacted to the situation naturally.

    Going back to the name/label analogy, get a picture of yourself in your mind, then consider what would happen is someone deleted your name? Thus deleted all your past experiences/achievements/failures? Who would you be? You would still be here, but with no mental model to refer too, that’s odd then, who are you? :confused:

    On a similar theme, just explain to me who you are, the only caveat is that you can’t use anything from the past or anything from the future, just explain who you are right this second.

    On a final note, I’m not trying to say the mind is all bad or even that I know much about this stuff, I’m on a learning curve as much as yourself and above is probably a bit of a clumsy effort on a subject that is actually quite subtle. But it's simply my perspective and one that have developed over the last couple of years, it has helped me look at life in a more healthy way, even during difficult life circumstances.

    Funnily enough, Eckhart Tolle (and others, Mooji etc) used to really annoy me, I felt they took too much time, paused for too long and spoke too slowly. Now I really enjoy listening to them, the peace they emanate as much as the words they speak are absorbing/amazing.

    Right, I’m starving – off for a bit of lunch, laters :D.
     
  20. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    I'd say you described it very well Mr Monkey. :)

    And you're correct the mind is not all bad. The mind is a tool we can use to act on things as they happen... just that all too often it gets in the way and distracts us with thoughts of the future created by things in the past, and we end up missing what is happening right Now.

    Samsaraspath,

    You said:
    The best description of "Ego" that I have come across is one described in vedic teachings. Now I know you're not big on "new age" stuff but these teachings are actually one of the most ancient philosophies known, and it also fits in with the "observer" that Mr Monkey has described to you.

    In vedic teachings, the Ego is known as "Ahankara". Ahan (or Aham when the word is used alone) refers to the Observer (or what you may see called the True Self in some threads here and elsewhere). Kara is what vedic teachings call "anything in creation", which sort of implies physical things, but is in fact anything at all, thoughts, memories, objects etc. When the Observer or True Self becomes attached to anything in creation, then we have AhanKara and hence Ego is created. So how does that help you understand... well... it goes a little more subtle than that... The attachment that is created is when we take something as belonging to us, as if it doesn't belong to anyone else, creating a seperation of "me" from "other" or what is known philosophically as "duality". If someone or something tries to remove that attachment then the Ego tries to hold onto it... it's like a magnetic force... and the attempt to remove duality causes conflict (just like you realising that Ego is not you, but your mind is in conflict at that idea, yet the Ego is still a part of the whole you, even though it's not the whole of you in itself). Buddhist philosophy (and most buddhist teachings are philosophy, not religion) is weighted quite heavily on recognising and being free of attachments, and that is because historically Buddhism stems from vedic teachings itself, just as many religions actually are when looked into in depth. Being free of attachment doesn't mean losing those things we are in connection with, but rather about letting go of the conflict that will arise should the connection go (in a basic materialistic example, it's the same as either getting upset at losing some money, or just letting it go without worry because you're still alive so recognise that worry serves no purpose)

    So, to answer your question... the Ego is a part of what you are... it's what makes you see yourself as seperate to others, it's a natural part of all human existence, but it's not all that you are. It's not a seperate person inside you as there is only One you... anything you perceive as seperate comes from duality, which is created by the mind... and as Mr Monkey describes... these things are transient... and You are simply the observer.

    Hugs

    Giles
     

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