1. Unfortunately The Project Meditation Community Forum is no longer active. Although registration and the creation of new posts not possible, you can still read and search the forum...

    If you are unable to find what you are looking for within the Project Meditation Community please check out our new Blog and/or our Facebook page.

Ready for the next level?

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Panthau, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hi there,

    Im a bit confused...i was sure that there must be a thread like this, but i just didnt found anything. :-/

    So i got lvl9 now (dont know exactly for how long, just saw it today), but how do i know that im ready to move on? Should i just try it?

    Thanks & Greetings
    Pan
     
  2. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Usually the levels of LF are sent after the minimum period needed to "get into it".
    I think it was like one-and-a-half months or 2 months or so. This is a safe timeframe to move on usually.

    If you don't feel like you are ready for the next level, or if you are enjoying the current level too much, don't go to the next level just yet.

    If you just can't wait to move to the next level ( like me usually :p) by all means ! Try it !
    If you don't feel you are ready for it after all, switch back until you feel you are ready again :)
    You have got all the time of the world.

    You seem like a very eager person, and I think it would be ok to move to the next one if you spent about 6 weeks on LF10. Enjoy :D
     
  3. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    The time period between levels is one month. I'm presently meditating with LF5 and LF4. It takes me a while to get used to a new soundtrack and I find it's better to listen for 30-40 minutes to the one I'm used to and then move on for another 10 or so to the new one at a very low volume.

    The best way is to use your intuition which always knows what you're ready for and how much to do. :)
     
  4. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Aright, thanks guys.

    Yes, im very eager (a nice word for impatient lol). I feel totaly ready for the next leve, and yes its a month im using Level 10 now. Ill do as u recommended, and just try it...if i feel its too much for my little brain, ill switch back :)

    I got the feeling my brain is overloaded since im born...maybe thats why it makes no difference for me if im using Lifeflow *gg*

    Thanks & Regards
    Pan
     
  5. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    time

    Hi Pan,
    I started LF10 a few days after you did. I'm taking the 60 day route per level as it will just give the ol' precious "grey matter" a nice gradual ramp approach.

    I have really found my dreams are much more vivid now and I remember them very clearly whereas this was not the case before LF. So this guy is just letting things go slowwwwwwww with the flowwwwww. (we gotta "jingle here")

    :):):):)


    oh BTW cool new chair :):):)


    take care

    jim
     
  6. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Thats great if you are more aware of your dreams! They are an important part of someones life. Im also not sure if im ready for lvl9, but whatever ready means...im just gonna try it. Ill post here my experiences :)

    My dreams are as always...not in my consciousness. Since im trying to astral project, i became more aware of my dreams and sometimes remember them...but most times im just sleeping like im dead. I got the feeling that my brain is processing a lot when im asleep and thats why im sleeping like im dead...because if i wouldnt, i would die anyway lol.

    Atb,
    Pan
     
  7. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Pan

    Let me play devil's advocate about when it's the right time to move on.

    Using LF-10 brings you to a state of consciousness that should feel at least a little bit different from your normal, waking state of consciousness. It's maybe something that before using LF you weren't able to achieve or could only achieve it infrequently.

    So if it was me I would be asking myself two questions.

    First, do I really feel a noticeable shift in consciousness when using LF-10? Even if you are experienced with meditation, the feeling of your state of consciousness when in meditation should be distinctly different than your everyday state of mind. There should be a definite sense of calm, reduced mental chatter, maybe a feeling of expansiveness. It could be many things but it should be markedly different than what you feel during the "ordinary" part of your day. If not; if it just feels like business as usual, then I would question whether or not my use of LF-10 so far has produced the desired results. If my meditation is just business as usual then moving on now probably won't produce any noteworthy results because I haven't yet obtained the benefits available through using the LF-10 track.

    Second, if using LF-10 does lead to a distinct shift in the feel of my consciousness, after having spent some time working with LF-10 I would have to ask if am I now able to enter that different state quickly and naturally, even if I'm not playing LF-10 to help me? If I cannot, then I probably need to spend more time with LF-10 until moving into that distinctive meditative state comes easily and naturally to me. To my mind that's the whole point of using a graduated process like the 10 levels of LF. I work with one level until I can reproduce its effects more or less naturally and at will. Only then do I move forward another step.

    There may be some of the more experienced meditators among us whose "ordinary" state of consiousness already tends to fall into that first track or two of the LF levels. In their case using LF-10 might not feel too different to them because they already spend much of their time in that state of consiousness. And so they might need to use lower track levels before they start noticing a state of consiousness that is distinct from their normal state. However, I supsect most of us come to meditation needing to begin at the beginning.

    You can take my opinion for what it's worth, but I don't believe when a person is prepared for the next step that there will be much question in their mind about it. You know whether or not your meditation takes you to a different state of feeling and consciousness, and you know whether or not you can enter that state easily and naturally. When you're at that point it's appropriate to take another step. Until you get to that point it's probably more productive to remain where you are.
     
  8. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hi Ta-tsu-wa and thanks for your reply,

    I can easily answer the first question with yes. After a few minutes of listening to lvl10 i get into a state where i feel connected to my subconscious. But the mind chatter doesnt stop most times, sometimes i feel i get even more thoughts. But thats another problem im having since 6 years or so...at that time i got a heart catether (unnecessarily, as then exposed) and after that i got something like a thoughts chaos. Hard to describe, its like a radio in my head...one thought after another which doesnt make sense. This gets stronger as i get more stressed and the opposite...and im often stressed, so im not sure how this affects my meditation.
    I have to say, that this doesnt affect my thinking or my normal speech...so it doesnt seem like brain damage or something (as its only there when its quiet around me). But i dont have a clue what it really is.

    For the second question i have no answer, because i never tried to get into that state without Lifeflow, but i doubt that i can reach that intensive state without it.

    Ill just try lvl9 today and then ill see anyway if i benefit from it.

    Thank you & Greetings
    Pan
     
  9. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Pan

    That's good that you notice a difference in your meditative state. That means your practice is moving forward. By the way, your thoughts won't necessarily disappear entirely. Sometimes they might, but if you're like me most of the time there are still bits and fragments of things swirling around, even if it's only deep in the background. But progress is progress and it sounds as though you're making some.

    Recall what we discussed in another thread about your meditation building on the foundation of the previous step. Sometimes you have to have that foundation before you can build further. I can see someone who pushes ahead faster than they should falling victim to discouragement. They hear stories others tell about experiences with certain levels of LF, and so they hurry along to try to reach those levels like the other people. Because they've not taken the time to build their foundations up they don't get the results they wanted. Then they become discouraged. They might feel like something is wrong with them because they got no results, or they might decide the LF track was ineffective or something like that. Discouraged people are often tempted to just give up.

    Don't fall into that trap. There's nothing more special awaiting you in LF-9 than there is in LF-10. Remember, it's not a race. There's no prize waiting for getting there faster. You won't ultimately miss out on anything by taking things at a slower pace, but you will definitely miss out on a great many experiences if you try taking them too fast. If it was me I would try a few meditation sessions without LF and see if the benefits I'd gained so far with LF-10 had become more natural to me; if they had produced somewhat more permanent changes. Having a known standard like that makes it far easier to track your overall progress.
     
  10. bashmaki

    bashmaki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ready or not

    First off,I like Ta-tsu-wa's approach. Seems calculated instead of just shooting from the hip.
    That said, when I took a run at LF7 after LF8 I wasn't ready. I didn't pee my pants or anything but I did put my tail between my legs and went back to LF7 for another 30 days. Sooooo; I think that was shooting from the hip. Maybe not the approach Michael had in mind for LifeFlow. It was, however, OK in the end. I am now on LF4 and I can still speak in complete sentences.

    As an aside, I went for my first spring run today. I was going to walk right??? Notta, I think I made it a whole 100 steps and I was running. I just gotta run, I can't help my self mommy!!:D

    gus
     
  11. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hi again,

    Ta-tsu-wa, i understand what you´re trying to tell me.
    I dont got the feel im pushing it, i just really feel ready to move on.
    And i got that feeling that i will need a lot more time for some of the
    levels then i spend with level 10.

    The reason to go forward for me is because i want to reach my inner self (this shiny, great something which is always there, but there are many clouds in the way) release energy and work on my deficits (i got a lot of them lol).
    Its "not" because i read what other people reached, because i just have no clue "how" it feels what they feel, so their is no need for me to push something i dont understand.

    I was always impatient with me, my deficits and how i am. Always felt im not good enough, so thats for sure something i need to work with...but i wouldnt do something that wont bring me forward, just because of my impatients (of course, only if im aware of). Its just there and tickles me *gg*

    So thanks for the hint, ill keep that in mind if i got the feeling im stuck. In that case, luckily we´re able to step back and try it again...giving up is not one of my opinions :)

    Pan
     
  12. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Like Ta-Tsu-Wa said, the thoughts don't need to go away.

    In fact, this is a misconception and a trap that I fell into when I started meditation. A "good" meditation was supposed to be without thought, or so I thought.
    I wasn't able to "will" the thoughts out of my meditation, and felt my meditation failed because of that.

    As it is with most things related to meditation, the opposite is needed to achieve progress.
    If you allow your thoughts to come up and go without being sucked into their story, without dwelling upon their drama, they will go away effortlessly, and after some time ( days,months, years, decades ) the mind will get the hint and only then will thoughts become less or stop.

    Been meditating for more than a year, but those moments that I meditate without thought are still rare. Enjoying all my meditations immensely anyway :)
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I hear you completely, I felt the same way for a long time !

    I finally overcame that feeling by realising some things when looking at my body.

    Usually when we look at our body, we see the flaws.
    But when you look beyond the skin, it is easy to become amazed at how increadibly special our body is. For example, a friend of the family was a docter ( he is retired now ) and he wanted to see if it was possible to make an artificial liver. He had the funds and so together with his colleagues they started to categorise the different functions of the liver. When they hit 500, they decided to end research, because it would be impossible to do all that with a machine.
    Your body is the manifestation of the Universe ( or God's ) creative power. Your presence is like a chip from the Universal presence, or you could say that you are part of God ( or as it is said in the Bible, created after God's own image ).

    You are every bit as special and unique as every other person, animal or plant in this world. Your place within the world of form has a higher meaning, or else you would not have been formed. As you know, one of the laws in the Universe is that no energy can be destroyed. Or wasted. It merely transcends into a new form: Light to heat, matter to gas...

    Since one of the laws of nature is that nothing is wasted, your presence, the meaning of you having materialised into this world of form, must have meaning. You don't even have to know the meaning while you are here, it will become clear again when we leave this creative world of form, and our presence returns to it's source, the Omnipresence or God.

    Of course it would sound a bit funny if people ask you: Who are you ?
    that you answer with the above explanation. You can answer with "I am Panthau", but you don't have to believe it, just know who your really are. You are special. :) and I am not just saying that :p
     
  14. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Edwin,

    It's funny how little we actually know about ourselves. We think we're a body, or we identify who we are with our names, or the roles we play in life (mother, father, parent, employee, locksmith, etc.) Think of all the doctors you know. Ask one them who they are and they say, "I'm Dr. So-and-So". They literally identify themselves with the title of "Doctor".

    There is a traditional Hindu meditation called "neti, neti" in which you start listing off all the things you are not. It comes to a point at which you realize anything you can point to is just another thing you are not. And if you follow the meditation long enough it becomes clear that eventually you will run out of things to point to without ever finding anything about which you can say, "Ah, here it is at last. THIS is what I am!" What if you really went to the end of the meditation? What remains when nothing remains?

    It isn't just us. Do we really appreciate what anything truly is? If I showed you a beautiful new grandfather clock and asked you what it was you would identify it as a clock. If I removed one of it's hands you would still say it was a clock. If I removed the other hand you would say the same. If I removed its pendulum you would still know it was a clock.

    I could remove the glass that covered its face, the spring inside that drives its mechanism, the cogs and gears that revolve inside it, its face, and so on, and if I brought it to you for identification you would still know it was a clock. Even though it is missing most of the parts, and can no longer perform any timekeeping functions, this would still be a clock. A broken clock, to be sure, but still a clock.

    What makes it a clock? Apparently not its parts. Not the way it looks. Not even the function it performs. Yet something about it still says, "This is a clock" to us.

    What is this "clockness"? Where does it come from? Where does it reside? What causes us to recognize it when we see it? If I kept removing pieces of that grandfather clock, at what point would it cease to be a clock? Would it ever cease to be a clock?

    Sometimes I wonder about what I am. Am I like that clock? Is there "something" that makes me who and what I am, even if I can never point out what that mysterious "something" is? If my body was annihilated; if I stopped performing all of the functions I perform; if there was nothing recognizable, tangible or intangible, would I still be "me"? And if so, what exactly is that "me"?

    I don't have an answer to that question, but one thing I do know... If it was possible to identify what that "me" was, it would be wonderful beyond our ability to conceive. I think of a poem by Rumi in which he writes,

    "When I die, I shall soar with the angels, and when I die to the angels, what I shall become you cannot imagine."
     
  15. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I agree with you in all you said.

    Thats funny, because i just tried lvl9 for the first time and got some "insights" or feelings in that context. At first, i felt that lvl9 is touching something inside of me "deeper" than lvl10. Maybe its not deeper, but different...but it felt deeper. After that feeling there was 20mins nothing...couldnt totaly relax, because of this first time use.

    Than i got that "picture" (not really...it was like something that is unbelievable large) of "me". It was like the blink of an eye of what i saw or felt. I tried to name it, like higher self or just consciousness but nothing really fitted. I just got the intense feeling that it was "me", an unbelievable, not in words expressable something. It felt like my deepest inner "coat", without any clouds around it. All that is left, is this absolutly amazing, unbelievable feeling about what it is, or what i am. What we are?

    And all this in just a few seconds. Im stunned! Gotta explore lvl9 a bit more :)

    Im just beginning to realize what happend. In the moment it happend, i didnt pay that much attention, it just happend...this is weird :)

    Pan
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  16. Edwin

    Edwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ta-tsu-wa, that was vere well written, I am struggling with my "clockness" myself at the moment ;) and what you wrote seems to push some bottons within me. like things are falling into place. thank you :)

    Panthau, I have had silimar moments, and it's like you said, when you are in it, you realise nothing, it feels natural, and when you allow your thoughts to cover it up again, that's when amazement comes up "what was that, that was amazing, what happened ? "
     
  17. bashmaki

    bashmaki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    TaTsu wa,
    For a very long time now; everyday I ask my self one of two questions at some quiet point during the day.
    Who Am I?
    or
    What Am I?
    The more I ask one of these two questions; The more I realize I know very little about who I Am or what I Am. As time goes on I realize I am identified with less and less. As a result I have gained a freedom unsurpassed by any other activity I've been involved in. It leaves me open to any number of experiences and/or situations.
    I've realized that identification with a thing limits ones involvement in other things by default.
    Not knowing leaves the entire experience at ones feet.

    gus
     
  18. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yup, thats really weird. Its like when i woke up with those vibrations, ready to leave my body...before that i read a lot about astra projection and negative experiences and was a bit afraid...but within that moment it was totaly normal.

    Pan

    Edit: brrr got some weird dream this night and felt the whole day
    bad...maybe nothing to do with the new lvl, but im switching to 10
    again until i feel better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  19. Panthau

    Panthau Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I suffer from a deep depression atm, and of course its hard to tell where it comes from. I have it since listening to lvl9, and i got also the feeling that this lvl may touch something in me which lets me feel this way.

    Does it make any sense to switch back to 10, or should i rather stick to 9 and try to go through that feeling?

    Pan
     
  20. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Advice

    Hi Pan,
    Please take the advice that long use LifeFlow folks have given us and go back to the previous level for a few weeks. Then, as was suggested, try LF9 again but for a short time but still use LF10 as your staple level.
    You had indicated that LF10 had some good results on the relaxation and sleep end of things. This means therefore that it has great value to use while you "taste" the LF9.
    I started LF10 around the same few days as yourself and I am going to follow Michael's suggestion of 2 months at each level to the letter. Yet, as a supportive Project Meditation follower has suggested to us newbies I plan to transition from one level to the other as per only listening 10 minutes to a new level for the first week then increase it.

    As others have told us we in meditation/LF must throw away expectations and trying to "hurry" our progress as this "hurry up results...darn it" has an opposite effect.


    just a newbie take on meditation and Lifeflow:):)

    take care

    jim
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009

Share This Page