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Not able to sleep after meditation

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by kart, May 25, 2011.

  1. kart

    kart Member

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    Hi,

    I meditate (mantra meditation) twice a day. Each session is 20 min.

    But I am having a problem with the evening session. I feel very fresh after it and won't be able to sleep during the night even if I maintain a gap of 3 hrs between meditation and sleep time. I still feel very fresh and relaxed on the bed.

    I don't want to avoid the evening session because it is very relaxing.

    What should I do?

    Thank you
     
  2. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Hi kart and welcome to the Project Meditation community,

    It is said by some that as we progress with our meditation, the body actually has less need for sleep, and a meditation session of 20 minutes can be equivalent to about 3 hours sleep (so I've been told, and there seems to be some truth in that from experience). If you feel like you are waking up in the morning as though you've lacked sleep and you feel you want more sleep than you are getting, perhaps cut down your evening meditation to just 10 minutes and see how that helps.

    It's an interesting question though... do we really need all the sleep we are told (by doctors or whoever) we need?

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  3. Curt-711

    Curt-711 Guest

    If i understood correctly you are repeating a mantra. If you are that is not meditation, repeating a word/mantra is still using the mind all you are doing is narrowing the mind. This must be understood because meditation is the absence of all words.

    For the sleeping part, sometimes i only sleep 4:30 hrs and i dont bother myself, sometimes i sleep much more and i dont care, if your body wants to sleep or sleep more you should not care, who are you to stop the body? If you still feel fresh after the meditation, then do the meditation (without mantras).

    This post sounds condemning, it isnt - its just creating awareness inside you.
     
  4. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi there, would like to just point out that focusing on the mantra, breath or any other form of focus is not meditating. They are simply the vehicles you use to reach the meditative state, where you then let them slip away. If/when busy thoughts interrupt your meditation you can re-focus on your mantra/breath etc. until you reach the meditative state again.

    To find out more, please click on the link below:-

    http://www.project-meditation.org/c...nciples-meditation-entrainment.html#post12298

    I wish you much peace and joy :) :) :)
     
  5. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday, I looked at the link regarding meditation. In some ways I am loathe to post this is it may easily be misconstrued, but in all sincerity, if the link is taken as 'gospel', what is the point of posting about and recommending links such as:

    BBC News - Brains of Buddhist monks scanned in meditation study

    which highlight extraordinary ability as a result of meditation?

    Are the above monks deluded, fooling themselves, or not able to meditate correctly in being able to exhibit traits that are beyond the capabilities of most?

    As this site points out:

    TIBETAN BUDDHIST MEDITATION with OLE NYDAHL, Ph.D.

    They, the monks, hold a very different view on focus and thoughts.

    I'm posting this because I believe that it, the type of mind control the monks exhibit at will is an indicator of exactly that, the ability of the Self to have realised their Truth, and thus truly and actually begin to master the mind.

    If we claim to meditate on our Self, yet are helpless when trying to use our mind, what's the use when trying to express ourself, create, or put another way, live? As soon as we are unable to control, or focus our mind, it can only be because we are unaware of our true Self.

    The Buddha's, Jesus's etc are reknowned because their focus was extreme compared to most, as was their ability to control their thoughts, or minds. When Buddha, Jesus etc became aware, or enlightened, after intense, prolonged focus, it was a monumental, out of the ordinary occasion, and not ignored or passed off as another trick of the mind.

    Imagine Jesus for instance appearing today.

    'I and my father are one, I experienced it, so now I will heal you and do some miracles.'

    'No you aren't you are deluded, and your ego is attached, keep meditating?'

    The worst trap is wanting enlightenment, yet entrenched subconsciously, the very thought of the person down the street becoming enlightened, One, is absolutely unacceptable.

    Miracles, signs are bad/anything is possible LOA works? Yipes, extreme conflict united!
     
  6. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    The point of posting such links (I think we're digressing from this thread though) was not so much to say that one understanding (terminology or model) of meditation is the "right" way to understand, but purely to show that, in this world where such practices are seen as "odd" or "woo" by many in the (ehem...) "real world", that in fact even the scientific community (who most seem to help in high esteem) are finding that there is in fact benefit to be had from meditation; and the more the "real world" sees that there is such benefit, then the better for the meditation community as we will be seen less like freaks of some sort.

    Not quite sure how you got to that topic from this thread or the link that Polly posted, but I hope that provides some sort of answer. :)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  7. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday, depending on your viewpoint, my post could be taken as digressing, but I posted to address the issue raised about focus, and the assertion to what meditation is, according to some people. The link you posted earlier is about the extraordinary results obtained by very devoted Monks, who are extremely experienced at practising one particular meditation style. As the other link highlights, the key to their extraordinary ability, which is far beyond most who claim to meditate, is in fact the opposite to not focusing, and is based entirely on developing and aiming incredible, one pointed concentration and focus. A read of the technique is very enlightening. If the technique is not accepted, why post about its incredible results? Why dismiss and discourage one pointed, continual focus, on Self?
    I find it interesting because it’s as if the Monks are total masters of LOA, or, that which you focus on you become. The common argument is that there is no need to become, as you already are... the focuser. That same argument however is also raised regarding goals or objects. It is often said that we actually create nothing, that everything already exists, and that we just need to focus on the object to experience it. So focus on Self, experience self. For instance, you may ‘be’ with your partner, but your focus me ‘be’ elsewhere, and you have no actual experience of them. The same with LOA, watch the mind wander at will, and get random experiences, not at all of your choosing, or focus.
    In a positive light, we have been given instructions on a meditation technique which has been proven to produce repeatable, measurable results. It’s our choice to ignore that, or embrace it.
     
  8. Bryan555

    Bryan555 Member

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    Seems to be a bit of confusion about your point, Uplift. Am I correct in thinking that you strongly disagree with Pollyanna's assertion: "focusing...is not meditating", but simply a "vehicle" to reach the meditative state?

    Seems to me you see that as the diametric opposite of what Buddhist monks believe, and practice.

    Have I summed up your basic argument? Hope so, because I do tend to agree with it.
     
  9. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    I think the simple point is that, regardless of the technique used for meditation practice, the practice itself is not the meditative state. Nobody is "dismissing" the techniques used whether it be the breath or mantra based, but often people focus on the technique as if it is the meditation state itself. ("look, I'm focused on this or that, and therefore I'm meditating"). Yes, the person is practicing meditation, but whether they are reaching a state of meditation is a different matter. The Buddhists can achieve it through single pointedness meditation practices, others achieve this through focusing on the breath, and others by using a mantra. These are just the tools to get us to the meditative state. That is simply all that Polly was referring to in her answer.

    It seems that some may have read it as is it were being said that the practice is being done wrongly. That is however not the case, but understanding the difference between the tool of practice and the meditative state itself can be an important lesson to learn in our continued practice.
     
  10. kart

    kart Member

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    Hi,

    Thank you all for the responses.

    After trying few combinations, I found that 5 min in the morning, 5 min in the afternoon and 3 min in the evening is working for me. Anything more is causing too much alertness in the night.

    But I don't understand why I am not able to meditate (I call it meditation for now :)) longer.
     
  11. Karmoh

    Karmoh Member

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    Hi kart,

    As a suggestion maybe you should combine those times in to one meditation. I would say best in the morning for you, as meditation disturbs your sleep.
    Try:-
    1(or 2) minute settling, getting comfortable and relaxing, try deep calm breathing
    10 minutes actual meditation
    Then 2 minutes adjusting out of meditation slowly opening your eyes and noticing your surroundings

    In the evening you could just practice resting in awareness.

    it goes something like this (how it was explained to me)

    Do not force thoughts to stop. As the next thought you have comes to rest naturally, simply and gently notice the non-conceptual space that is left once the thought falls away. Rest there for one moment, without labelling your experience or having to know anything at all about life.


    This helped me a great deal, especially in those times when meditation is not suitable. I now do the above throughout the day. :)



    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  12. Bryan555

    Bryan555 Member

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    This is indeed strange. But, then again, you said that meditation makes you feel "very fresh and relaxed" at night. That certainly can't be all bad, can it? Most people love feeling fresh and relaxed.

    Why do you do it so many times a day? Perhaps a good, long session when you first wake up, would do the trick? A lot of people say they don't have time that early. I didn't either, but I just set the alarm 40 minutes earlier, and do it.

    Works great for me. Might work in your case, too...? Worth a try.
     
  13. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    Indeed, sleep is not simply a stretch of lost time. It differs greatly depending on the length of sleep, and the time of day we (habitually) sleep. The first part of our sleep (if we sleep at roughly the same time every night) is where we have almost all the deep (delta) sleep, which rejuvenates the body and keeps it healthy. Later parts of the sleep are increasingly for the benefit of the mind rather than the body. As such, they can be replaced with meditation at no loss and often great gain, as meditation is something we tend to get too little of in today's lifestyle, even more so than sleep.

    As such, it is not surprising that ancient religious traditions - in which we first find sustained meditative practices - considered early morning a supreme opportunity for such practice.
     

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