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No success with meditation

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Liami, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. Liami

    Liami Member

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    Hello everbody,

    This is the first time I'm writing to the forum, hoping to get some answers as to why I have no success with meditation.

    I'm currently listening to LF 6.

    This is my meditation protocol: I always make sure there are no distractions or disturbances when I meditate. One day I will meditate with headphones on the next without them.

    When I started listening to LF 10 I could only do 20 minutes of meditation and then I'd get all fidgety and nervous and I'd be moving my legs and arms, scratching my head, nose... I didn't know my nose could itch so many times in under a minute :D

    On to LF 9. I liked this one much better but still I could only do 20 minutes before my arms and legs would get nervous. They would literally shake but I'd be calm inside and completely relaxed. The remaining 20 minutes were anything but enjoyable but I persevered.

    LF 8. I was down to 15 minutes of enjoyable meditation and 25 of nervousness. I tried lying down but I have difficulty being still for 5 minutes let alone 40! So I tossed and turned and fell asleep! Every time!

    This was the case through all LF 8, 7 and now 6. If I sit, my legs and arms get nervous (different positions don't work either), if I lie down, I fall asleep.

    I am relaxed when I meditate and I clear my mind completely (well, most of the time). I am a calm person and started meditating because of my silly memory. The state it's in now, I wonder if it's not misplaced somewhere :). I have difficulty remembering all sorts of words (nothing wrong with me physically – been to the doctor), but I think the whole thing got worse when I started a really stressful job in marketing 4 years ago. So, I'm wanting to get my memory back and relieve some of that stress.

    I'm sure there are numerous benefits in meditating but I cannot 'brag' with any of them. I get more relaxation playing with my dog then listening to the 'tapes'. The kicker is my dog loves meditating with me. She 'assumes the position' (which is in her bed on her side) and waits for the music to start. She starts breathing deeply into the 3rd or 4th minute of the music and when its all over she looks calm and relaxed and I look tired and stressed out.

    I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but cannot figure out what. I'd be grateful for any thoughts you wish to share. I want to keep meditating but if this continues, I might be better off just playing with my dog.

    Lia
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
  2. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    I am glad your dog benefits from meditation and yes, dogs have beneficial influence on both physical and mental health of humans. So by all means spend time with her.

    But as for your problems, there could be very different reasons for this. It could be some inner conflict that manifests physically because it is too deeply repressed to put into words. Or it could be merely a thing of the body, due perhaps to some particular trait of your circulatory system. It could even be kriyas, I suppose. You should try to find out more by doing some simple experiments.

    First, you say this appears when you use LifeFlow. If you spend more than 20 minutes meditating in silence, do you get the same symptoms? If it is simply your body reacting to the lower heart rate etc, the symptoms should be the same.

    Likewise, if you lie down for half an hour and just stare at the wall, do you fall asleep? Or does it require meditation? Or does it require brainwave entrainment in particular?
     
  3. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    Liami

    First thought off the top while reading your post... Go back to LF-10. It serves no useful purpose at all to continue moving on down to the lower tracks if you are not seeing the benefits of meditation at the earlier, higher level tracks. Lower is not better, it's just different, but it's a difference you will only be able to take advantage of if you've been successful with the preceding, higher tracks.

    Here's a link to an earlier post in which someone asked the question, How do you know when the time has come to move on to the next track in the series:

    http://www.project-meditation.org/c...atter-box/1470-ready-next-level.html#post7310

    Read through that entire thread carefully and slowly. There was a great deal of discussion about when to move on, what to look for, etc., and it would be too much to reproduce it all again here in this thread.

    I suspect you've been going on to the next track when you've been on the current one for about 30 days. That 30 to 60 day timeframe Michael suggests is only a general guide to give a person an idea what they might possibly expect. How soon a person actually takes to move from one track to the next will depend entirely on the progress that person makes with the current track. If you begin with LF-10 and 30 to 60 days later you're not seeing significant progress with your meditation then there's no point to moving on to the next track. The tracks are set up to use in a progression, but it isn't a progression of track numbers that's important, it's a progression in your own personal meditation improvement that is at issue.

    So you should probably go back to LF-10 and begin working through it again, this time using the guidelines (or something like them) as I outlined in that post I provided the link to above. When it's time to move to the next track you'll know it, not because any particular number of days have elapsed, but because your practice will have resulted in some very distinct changes and improvements in your meditation. The state of meditation at that level will have begun to feel familiar and comfortable to you. You'll notice improvements that carry over from your periods of meditation into your everyday life, and so on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  4. Liami

    Liami Member

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    Itlandm and Ta-tsu-wa,

    Thank you both for your thoughts. You make valid points!

    I’m a newbie at meditating and I really was wondering if I’m just not ‘equipped’ for meditation but your thoughts have given me something to think about. Thank you both!

    Itlandm, I’ve never spent 20 minutes meditating in silence. I only tried once (years ago) and it took all of 3 minutes to have me feeling like a nervous wreck. I couldn’t calm down (which is funny because I’m a calm person and I’m not just imagining that :)), got nervous, my mind was racing and my legs hurt. I couldn’t see how people find meditation enjoyable.

    This isn’t something I ‘got’ through the years, even as a child it was difficult for me to stay still – even when I’m watching TV; I change positions so many times you would think I’m playing a special sport. :D

    Lying for half an hour in bed staring at a wall? Nope, can’t do that either. I do have cardiovascular problems, but I’m taking care of myself as much as possible, so maybe you’re right there. :confused:

    I will give meditating in silence another go to see what happens now and will let you know.

    As for the lower heart rate – I do experience that and when the heart rate falls I feel like I’m suffocating and I have to breathe in really deeply, and when that happens the heart rate goes up. A lot of things happening in those 20+ minutes!

    Ta-tsu-wa, I read all the answers to ‘ready for the next level’. Boy, oh, boy, I think you are right! I haven’t built a solid foundation, and I’m building my house in the air, no wonder it keeps falling down!

    Again, you’re right; I’m always eager to start a new level because I’ve read from so many people how wonderful they feel and it really isn’t a competition. I just want to have the same wonderful experiences others are having. And I cannot meditate without the track (and as you can read, even with the track is a bit on the difficult side), and I cannot recall a specific state of mind whenever I want. I can see I have a lot more work to do.

    I’ve read a lot on using mantra while meditating to tracks and that it’s that mantra that helps you reach the state without using any track. But whenever I use mantra, I cannot calm my mind; I think about all sorts of things and in the end forget all about the mantra. If I don’t use mantra, I can clear my mind, but then the question is, how will I be able to reach a certain level without the tracks? I know I’m getting a bit ahead of myself since I first need to learn to meditate to LF 10, but this is something I’ve been wondering for a while now, and if I need to start at the beginning, I might as well start the right way.

    Thank you both again! You’ve given me plenty to think about (and do) and if there’s anybody else who’d like to pitch in, please do. Maybe there’s something else I’m not doing the way I should…

    All the best,
    Lia
     
  5. Liami

    Liami Member

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    Itlandm, I tried meditating in silence but it was a no-go. My legs get too nervous and I cannot sit or lie down.

    Ta-tsu-wa, I'm listening to track 10 again - I'm right where I was all along - doing only 20 minutes before my legs and arms get all nervous. I hope the tracks will work for me too!

    Thank you both again!
    Lia
     
  6. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    It could well be a genuine health problem. The body will protect itself. Even when you sleep, it is probably changing your position frequently. Virtually all people do this to some degree without waking up.

    The good news is that you can evidently sit still for about 20 minutes on a regular basis. If you do this twice a day, you would get your recommended dose of LifeFlow. Even if not, grab what you can get. With meditation, regular practice is extremely important to progress. Once you have reached a certain level of meditation "skill", you may stay on that with more sporadic practice, but progress depends on being very regular. It is better to meditate ten minutes each day than two hours on Sunday.

    You may also want to experiment with alternatives to traditional sitting practice. Perhaps some more active posture. Some people feel a profound tranquility when swaying or rocking gently. (In fact, my grandfather even had a dedicated rocking chair; they were not at all uncommon here at the time.) The higher metabolic activity of such a practice might alleviate the symptoms you now feel. Obviously this tends to look a lot less dignified than the classic meditation posture...

    You may also find that you benefit from a daily gentle practice similar to tai chi. I don't know your health well enough to say if this would be an option, but when done slowly and gently, such exercises are normally possible even for the elderly and the moderately movement challenged. If successful, it may have a positive health effect that could make it easier for you to endure the sitting exercises, if you continue them.

    These are merely suggestions. But for the sake of your spirit, soul and body, please don't give up on a regular brain flossing practice of some kind. After a while, it will become its own reward.
     
  7. Liami

    Liami Member

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    And I’m going to follow them all. They make perfect sense. I bought a large collection of tai chi dvds a long time ago (I read about the benefits of doing tai chi on a regular basis, especially for cardio-vascular problems), but in this crazy fast world, I’m afraid I only bought them. I whipped them out, and as of tomorrow, I’m doing them every day for the next month and then I’ll report back to you.

    I am doing fitness (bodyweight and dumbbells) 3-4 times a week and some moderate aerobics as well so I can do tai chi with no problem.

    I love rocking chairs – my grandparents had one and they had trouble getting me off of it. I don’t have one but I’ll fix my chair so that it allows movement. This should work just fine.

    A question – If I do 20 minutes twice a day, do I start at the begging both times or do I need to start at 20 minutes the second time? 20 minutes at a time makes much more sense than the whole 40 as I feel the benefits of the first 20 minutes are lost on me as the next 20 minutes are all nervousness and fidgeting. I have been struggling for the last 5 months regularly (every day) so now that I have possible solutions at hand I won’t give up that easily! Thank you very much for you time and advice. It is much appreciated!

    Lia
     
  8. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    DVD just lying around, hmm? What a fortunate coincidence! :) Be sure to have fun with it, and I would be surprised if it does not help your meditation a little too. These are things that go naturally together.

    As for dividing the time in half, the good news is that each LifeFlow track uses the same base frequency throughout, so you can start and end at any point. Just allow yourself a couple minutes to settle into it at the beginning and a couple minutes to slowly return at the end before you hurl yourself into the tumble-drier of ordinary hectic life. When you are new to a particular track it may take 5 minutes or more before your brain is fully resonating, but for each time you do it you will get into it faster, so there soon won't be much loss by dividing the 40 minutes in two.

    Good luck! I hope you find plenty of joy and happiness. And your dog too, I hope she continues to enjoy LifeFlow!
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Just like Yoga, Tai Chi is a form of meditation in itself. And a whole lot more, but that's not important here.

    I am positive that they can be excercised with LifeFlow ! This will reduce the time you need every day for meditation, and that will improve your chances of persevering. It will also improve your Tai Chi movements, as Presence will improve anything you are doing.
     
  10. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Back from holiday, Edwin? :)
     
  11. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    and kicking ;)
     
  12. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    ok let me reword this:

    welcome back edwin, we missed you and hope you had a great time in your holidays! :) :)
     
  13. Liami

    Liami Member

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    Forgot to tell you - again, you're right :) (some magic crystal ball in your possession? :D). I don't just toss and turn in my sleep, I like to joke I run miles and miles...

    As for dividing the time in half - that's great!

    And, yes, my dog still enjoys her meditation time. Now if we don't do it when expected, she actually goes to her place, waits and whines every few minutes :D

    And I did Tai Chi today! I felt a little silly (read a lot) when I began. Felt like I was chasing air :D. But after only 10 minutes I was huffing and puffing and feeling a bit hot just like with fitness. The nice (I mean, really nice) thing was that I didn't feel like I was straining myself. When I finished I had to laugh - I have such trouble believing these kind of tinkerbell exercises do anything for your health but all those Chinese can't be wrong.

    Will report back on the progress in about a month's time.

    One more question? What do I do with mantra? If I use none, how will I be able to get myself into a meditative state without using LF (if I ever have to)?

    Lia
     
  14. Saurabh

    Saurabh Member

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    Breathing

    Hi,

    Whatever level u choose , jut try normal breathing which is universal and will definately help u.
    Just be aware of your breath.

    Are you able to watch your thoughts?

    I feel probably you are attaching yourself to thoughts rather than being disassociated from them.

    Best of Luck
     
  15. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

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    Welcome back Edwin!

    Hope you and your loved ones had a superb time!

    Giles filled in very well on the forum just as you had asked him to. Of course, he was "backed up" by some of our other learned persons.....:).


    shine on :) :)

    jim
     
  16. Liami

    Liami Member

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    Watch my thoughts? I have none :). Really - I clear my mind so much, there is nothing in there. Or I've not come so far as to have things happen during meditation (from what I've read in other posts). I guess, I just have to wait and see.

    Thank you, Saurabh.

    Lia
     
  17. Liami

    Liami Member

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    No success with meditation - UPDATE

    I almost cannot believe it's been five months since the last time I wrote (and said I'd get back in a month's time). Wow. Time sure flew by!

    I've been meditating every single day since you last herd from me and have an update for all the members that helped me with the questions I had.

    I'm so much better at meditating now that it's hard to believe. I don't toss and turn and am able to lie still through the whole 40 minutes!! That's HUGE success for me. I have noticed that in order to be able to meditate like that, I have to be physically tired otherwise it's a no-go. But since being tired is never an issue :D neither is meditating any more.

    I have struggled a lot to get to this point and have tried everything you suggested. The Tai chi and rocking chair didn't help, but the split routine did (20 minutes now and 20 later). I did the split routine for a while and then just forced myself to go through the whole thing at once because it was difficult to find a quiet place to meditate twice a day. I struggled for a while but then all of a sudden something clicked and I was able to go through the whole 40 minutes.

    The last month or so I'm actually enjoying meditation and now I happily do it every day compared to the days when I actually pushed myself to do it. My dog still meditates with me every day, and if I was ever tempted to miss a day (that was before I started enjoying it) she would remind me with loud whining. :)

    Apart from the fact that I am now able to go through the whole 40 minutes while lying down perfectly still (which is really huge), I have no other benefits to report. I don't feel any different and my memory has not improved, but all in all I will be perfectly happy if all I get from this is this wonderful relaxing time which I would never be able to do had it not been for LF and all of your suggestions! However, things might change further down the road since I am still at LF 10. Yep, I'm taking it easy and it pays.


    Again, thank you all! Had it not been for your help, I would have given up months ago.


    All the best,
    Lia
     
  18. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    That's wonderful to hear, Lia! Despite the ominous title of this thread, it sure seems to have turned out well. I hope you and your dog will enjoy ever deeper peace and happiness in the time to come!
     
  19. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    That's great news Lia.

    Congratulations on your perseverence and you are living proof that determination will work in the end.

    The more you do the easier it becomes.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  20. Liami

    Liami Member

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    It sure turned out great, didn't it (still more to come I hope :))?

    I'm just so thankful for all of you out there sharing your words of wisdom and understanding! It's such a rare quality these days.


    All the best,
    Lia
     

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