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Meditating on the Self

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by GilesC, May 31, 2011.

  1. olmate

    olmate Member

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    So I just ask, I really am interested, why the need to deceive when selling and marketing, even Spiritual products. Where’s the faith, the love? Hence the statement, ‘Ye of little faith’. There are infinitely more successful, wise choices, which are truly aligned with God, Oneness, good for all. Maybe that also is too hard for God? Cosmos’s, universes, galaxies, atoms, black holes, suns, babies, life, sure, but honest, truly beneficial sales techniques and products that really set an example for our children, our Grace… nup, too hard! But pppsssttt, buy this product, you only have until midnight, (you know the ludicrous story), and anything is possible, even enlightenment! Can you imagine, ‘Hey, pppssstt, there’s this sermon by this Jesus guy with free loaves and fishes for only 97 bucks, but you better… or, ‘Hey, pppsssttt, this Buddha guy is going to show you how to be free, but he reckons his mate will really free you for only 97 bucks, but quick , you’d better’…

    Because that is just what some people do. It is what it is. Just like religion over the eons being the cause of great suffering - probably the biggest single cause of suffering, in humanity. And in the age in which we live, perhaps fostered by media where the community view of any particular faith can be generalised by the portrayal of a leader. We like this leader so this religion must be good. We don't like that leader so that religion must be bad. It is easy to be swept up in the emotional wave that follows this stuff around.

    But... by Grace... the path we walk is an individual choice, an individual experience, an individual journey. When we focus on our journey, seek advice aimed at continuing that journey at the micro level, then we individually continue down our chosen path.

    Lots and lots of people under many, many guises want to save people, the planet, species, the ozone, a river, a tree, etc., etc. That is OK, but there comes a time when a line is crossed by some. History has hundreds and hundreds of examples of where my god is better than your god - and we have the army to prove it - and our army is bigger than yours, so god must be on our side. Lots and lots of examples of people passionately wanting to save souls - and if you won't let me save you then I will kill you. Or fly aeroplanes into buldings or blow things up or whatever. It's insane.

    But... by Grace... we can individually walk a path to a place that has consequences. Some consequences are obvious, some invisible. But above everything, it requires us to follow our own particular path - sometimes willingly, sometimes being dragged by the scruff of our necks. The rare few, like you and me who visit forums like this know this. Many don't or not yet anyway. But as the collective consciousness continues to evolve, moment by moment, more of the mystery is revealed - by Grace.

    Isn't that what we are called to do? Faithfully walk our path, make our contribution to an evolving consciousness?

    Sorry... this isn't intended as a lecture. Just a candid response to your question from a position of truth and integrity.

    Nothing but the best... always...

    Olmate
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  2. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    :confused: Not sure where I have said I believe that I don't? Perhaps you've misunderstood my words somewhere? I have certainly experiences complete awareness and therefore know it is my natural state of BEing. Of course, like most people, having to (not really having to, but you know what I mean) live daily lives, the mind takes control over us, rather than just being the tool it should be.

    Yes, complete awareness could be seen to encompass all awareness, though it's really just a case that it IS all awareness ("encompass" makes it sound as though complete awareness is just a part of all awareness). I still don't get what you mean by meditating on the Self? Are you referring to meditating as in the practice of meditation, or are you referring to it as the state of meditation. I can see the state of meditation as BEing awareness, but I can't see the practice of meditating "On" the awareness. Is this where the confusion is?

    I think what you are really referring to, in my own terms, is simply the practice of remaining present.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  3. Hazelkay

    Hazelkay Member

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    I found this

    From Ajahn Amaro

    "The mind wants to know everything. Even if it doesn't understand, it will have some belief.
    It will form an opinion or view and hang on to that just to fill up the space of not knowing.
    It wants to be on top of things. But this whole method of investigation and inquiry depends
    upon not knowing. It depends upon us being open and ready to not know. It depends upon us
    allowing mystery and letting the knowing arise out of that. It depends on our not being threatened.

    From the ego's point of view, the unknown is frightening. It is threatening and it responds to
    that threat by clinging to a belief as a way of dispelling it. But from the point of view of the
    heart, the unconditioned mind, the unknown is mysterious . . . but it is beautiful. You don't have
    to fill up the unknown with a belief or a concept or idea. You can leave it as mysterious.
    There is no way that we can understand it all. So the heart's response to that mystery is faith -
    a trust in the fundamental orderliness of the universe."

    peace and joy:)
     
  4. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday Giles, these quotes below are yours.

    ‘I just can't see how it would be possible to meditate On the Self’
    ‘To me, the "Self" is that unchanging observer that observes the thoughts and everything. It's not something that can be observed (that would be like an eyeball looking at itself)’
    ‘the Self is not something that can be meditated "on"’.
    ‘I'm not sure that it is actually possible to simply meditate On the Self. All I can do is BE the Self’.
    ‘but I'm not sure how, even a truly enlightened person, can "focus" on the "Self"’
    ‘but I can't see that the Self is anything but the observer or Oneness of Being’.
    ‘but I just can't accept that myself’.
    ‘I can't observe it, but I can BE it’,


    That’s just a sample of your so many cant’s and limits. Unlimited Being? According to you, no such thing.

    Even a limited field like quantum physics demonstrates that one particle can be in different places at once. Again, too hard for Unlimited Being, God?
    Yet despite the limits, you state that you have complete awareness. You always talk about Self as separate from the mind, thoughts, yet simultaneously apply your own limited mental view to Unlimited Being.
    ‘Hey God. Can you be in two places at once? Can you meditate on yourself? Are you really unlimited’?
    Well errr, errr…hey,you’ve got me, you win!
    ‘Yeh I knew I would! Its in this book I’m reading, you should read it God…

    Olmate, are you saying that the likes of Buddha, who wondered why suffering occurred, shouldn’t have bothered to meditate on it and get the answer that he did. Or that his answer was just mental delusion? That if he was enlightened enough, he would have realised that that’s just how it is? Or that any other Spiritual icon was just wasting their time, in fact, were not enlightened enough to just realise, that’s just how it is?
     
  5. Bryan555

    Bryan555 Member

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    Giles, you really set off such an interesting discussion. I've been busy for a couple of days, just now catching up. But have found myself, recently, thinking about it a lot.

    I've reached the pretty surprising conclusion that you and I -- while both practicing meditation -- have been using virtually opposite strategies, to achieve virtually opposite goals. I'm not new to meditation. But I AM new to talking about it with others, and this discovery is quite a shock to me.

    It seems that you have sought, and found, a place of great tranquility, with the Self as the observer. I, on the other hand, have spent more than 30 years as the observer, with the Self as my (oft elusive) target.

    I was trained from the outset to, essentially, focus upon and pursue the deeper Self. I have spent all my time trying -- eventually, slowly, to some extent, succeeding -- in pounding on its door, persuading it to open itself up to me.

    At the time I learned that method, I knew nothing of meditation in general. So I assumed that my "guru" -- (essentially Paramahansa Yogananda, for it's his method I learned) -- was teaching me some sort of universal meditation style. But I now realize he was focused on a very particular goal. A goal which he achieved, but which remains some considerable ways off for most of us.

    Anyway, huge thanks, Giles, for pushing me towards that realization. It's a fascinating step for me. As you always say...hugs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  6. olmate

    olmate Member

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    Olmate, are you saying that the likes of Buddha, who wondered why suffering occurred, shouldn’t have bothered to meditate on it and get the answer that he did. Or that his answer was just mental delusion? That if he was enlightened enough, he would have realised that that’s just how it is? Or that any other Spiritual icon was just wasting their time, in fact, were not enlightened enough to just realise, that’s just how it is?

    Not at all. The issue at hand boils down to one of volitional freedom and volitional responsibility. That is a realisation that dawns for each of us at some point.

    Olmate
     
  7. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday Olmate. So that’s why I ask. Why do some have their choice of making the decision to not tell the truth, of choosing to blatantly mislead people accepted and even promoted, while others aren’t seen as suitable because of it? What makes one ‘pppssst, free 97 buck, for your eyes only, last chance, twisted my amasing friend’s arm, and begged and pleaded just for you offer’, (until next month) better than another? And what have any of them got to do with knowledge, wisdom and expression of Oneness, of Spirit, of our Truth, of Self, God?

    Why place so much supposed importance on going Inward, correct frequencies to help and protect, getting rid of those that don’t help others, meditation techniques, to focus or not to focus, etc, etc, and then literally engage in the opposite. What hope is there of realising Truth when you simultaneously practice the opposite. It’s exactly like saying, ‘I will turn left, I will turn left, I will turn left, I will turn left, I know all about turning left, and then instantly, helplessly turning right, whilst telling selected others, we can’t associate with you, we only turn left, and you turned right.

    And again, why, if there is so much Spiritual Wisdom responsible for, and imbued in all these, ‘pppssst, free 97 buck, for your eyes only, last chance, twisted my amasing friend’s arm, and begged and pleaded just for you offer’, (until next month), affiliate products, why is that out of the myriad of infinitesimally more Spiritually based and aligned, and so successful choices, that only lies and deceit are chosen as, and seen as the only successful sales vehicles. And more sadly, why are the public so helpless and desperate that they will choose the opposite to what they seek?

    So is that really the message to our kids? Spirituality is so unlimited, so wonderfull and good, but, if you really want success and abundance and freedom and peace, and the ability to make money while you sleep, you’d better lie , deceive, manipulate and network in that world of deceit as much as you can, or you won’t have a chance.

    Again, if I am ‘fibbing’, and all those coincidentally nearly identically formatted, ‘pppssst, free 97 buck, for your eyes only, last chance, twisted my amasing friend’s arm, and begged and pleaded just for you offers’, (until next month) are actually good ol’, ‘can’t stop myself from helping you’, God loving Truth, please, please by all means correct and enlighten me.

    In relation to Giles' question, meditation to discover your Truth, your Self, is much more than sitting with whatever technique or aid, and is a constant, focused, sincere choice, which doesn’t end when you open your eyes, and which if constant and pesistant enough then leads to Grace, to effortless constant, focussed realisation and expression of Self, of Truth. Anything else is just that, something else. You can't fool your Self.
     
  8. olmate

    olmate Member

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    Hi Uplift,

    I guess a short answer is that given the personal and experiential nature of the paths we faithfully tread, no one person can either prove or disprove the radically subjective nature of ultimate truth.

    Some pitch their path for a price as the best, fastest, easiest or whatever. My sense is though that most of us have walked these dry gullies at some point in our individual journeys. It is not until we discover that there is no “cause” in Enlightenment that we see the world differently. Prior to the dawning of that realization we drink often of misconceived theology through a limited dualistic, linear ego/mind. This doesn’t mean that these paths necessarily limit our journey in an absolute sense. But it is not until we discover that one does not “get” enlightenment nor is there any personal self to whom the condition could be applied, much less held as a quality or attribute.

    The way to enlightenment is simply that of surrendering the barriers to the state of Realization. If I stand in the shoes of a marketer, there probably is not much sizzle in that message or much opportunity to convert into cash. And I can hear the marketing guru struggling with the concept of selling to an egoistic self that if you pay me some money, I will soon kill off your sense of self. That is when the steak knives offer starts to look good again to Mr. Marketing Guru. See, I also think that “meditation” is now also being packaged as a product. In truth, what we seek is the meditative state. So again, Mr. Marketing Guru will always suggest that his or her mantra or technique or whatever is better. But you know, even though some of this stuff is just plain false, if someone gets a glimpse of truth and that helps them on their way, then who are we to criticize. After all, each of our paths is unique.

    But also, when you think about any topic, someone, somewhere will happily tell you why their gadget, methodology or whatever is best if it results in a fast and profitable transaction. Is that right? Well if I want to play the right-wrong game, I can whip myself into a frothing, foaming lather real fast. If I look at it on a linear continuum, well I might come to a very different conclusion. That is what underpinned my first statement about “just is”.

    It seems from progress down this particular path, that time is short and narrow are the gates. So the devotional focus is somewhat magnified.

    As always, nothing but the best…

    Olmate
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
  9. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Just jumping back up the thread to answer some I didn't answer earlier as I was off out and had no time to...

    Isn't that like I said then? Uplift is referring to just BEing (whether that's being present, being awareness of whatever label you want to put on it). I don't have a system to find the self as, like you, I have experienced the Self and know it. Once you know it, there's no need to seek it.

    Absolutely agree (though I'm not familiar with the jnana and bhakti paths, I never got into the Advaita teachings at that level, which is perhaps a good thing). I've used information from all different systems in discoving the Self and experiencing it, so that I know it. Now, I don't follow any system, except just the simple practice of meditation, and the reminding of my little self to remain present whenever possible.

    So, remain present/aware as much as possible, yet we know the mind often drags us back to this "real world". That's my understanding.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  10. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Karmoh! Good to put a face to the name at last, and see the not-real you. :D
     
  11. Bryan555

    Bryan555 Member

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    Hi, Giles. Quick question about something which puzzles me. You say: "I have experienced the Self...once you know it, there's no need to seek it."

    Does this mean you have become a fully-realized person who is able to experience the deeper Self at will? In that case, wow, huge congratulations!

    But most us live in the "real world", where those moments of "unity" with Self are still fairly rare. In my own case, they are much-treasured and certainly don't come often enough to be taken for granted.

    I may not still be seeking the Self, but I am certainly -- every day -- still re-seeking that unity with it. It is a kind of wonderful addiction.

    So I'm curious whether, in your case, you've gone beyond that addiction? Has knowing become enough -- so that there is no need to keep re-experiencing it?

    I struggle a bit with this question, and sometimes worry that I "over-meditate". So I'd be interested in your point of view. Much thanks....
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
  12. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Sorry, I got waylaid from replying, so I'm now on a catch-up if I can. I'll work back up the replies (which is perhaps the wrong order, but seems to be the order I want to do it hehe!)...

    I guess that depends on your interpretation of "fully-realized person". According to a lot of philosophies or belief systems, a fully realized person would be one who permanently lives in the present moment. In that respect, no, I'm not saying that, as I like most of us, get distracted by the mind/thoughts.

    What I am saying is that there is a difference between being taught/believing in something and actually knowing it. A child is taught at an early age that 2+2 = 4, but until they put it into practice, e.g. count out 2 building blocks and then count out another 2 building blocks and then count the total of those blocks, it's just a belief. Once they've experienced it through practice themselves, it becomes (opens up) the knowledge. They no longer need to seek what 2+2 is, but just know that it is equal to 4. Likewise in all walks of life, whether it's scientific proofs or whatever.

    I wouldn't say that any of us who recognises that Unity takes it for granted. Only through the Ego would somebody do that. As I said, it's not a permanent state for me, and when I started out on this journey (metaphorically speaking), those moments were sparse, rare and treasured. With practice (meditation and otherwise), and with being able to learn terminology and have teachers of living in the present moment, the occurences happen more often naturally, and also can be chosen at will (simply by recognising the mind at play, and thus becoming present and fully aware). It sounds easy, and I know it's not as I've been there, but it does get easier to let go with more practice.

    Why become addicted to it? But seriously, I know what you mean. So, you too, "know" of the Self, you have experienced it, and with practice, bringing yourself back to that Unity becomes easier.

    I wouldn't say that I am addicted. I recognise BEing the Self (or perhaps it's better phrased as Not being any "other thing") and when those moments arise. With practice, I am teaching the rider to train the elephant, but the trainer and elephant must work as One (refer to the book The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt: The Happiness Hypothesis - Jonathan Haidt for more on the rider and elephant model). If I were to put my focus on trying to refind that Unity, then that focus would become thoughts, and I would be attached to those thoughts rather than letting them go. This is why my initial question was about how we can meditate "on" the Self, because such a practice would require focus and the focus would prevent BEing the Self.

    I guess because I do other things than meditate as well, that I don't feel I am over meditating, and I meditate when necessary, though usually aim for a couple of times a day. Just "pausing" can be a beneficial practice throughout each day; reminding myself to just stop between tasks and take a few seconds to bring myself to the present moment, letting thoughts of the past task go and clearing the mind ready for the next task.

    :)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  13. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Again, for Bryan...

    What is the goal though? To simply BE your Self? Surely we aim for the same Oneness (in fact there can be no other goal).

    Like a dog chasing it's own tail, believing it to be something other than it's Self? :rolleyes:
    Do you feel that you would ever find the Self by trying to observe it?

    That's interesting. Was he teaching you to seek what he had achieved, but missed the point that you couldn't find it by looking at his state as the goal, but actually by letting go of what was preventing you from finding that state for yourself?

    I'm glad you have found the discussion beneficial. I know I have.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  14. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Hazel,

    This is so true.
    Science is often quoted as saying that they only deal with facts, not faith, yet they must have faith and beliefs in order to persue their experiments and their theories, in order to determine if those things can be turned into knowledgeable facts. Good teachers will help us to find the knowledge by guiding us to experience information for ourselves. Only when that information is experienced can it become known.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  15. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    And finally (I think that's most people's responses covered)... Uplift...

    I think (and no offence intended) we are entering the realms of pedanticism.
    Perhaps if you could answer for me... when you refer to "meditate on the Self" are you referring to it as a practice of meditation (a technique to follow) or are you referring to just becoming the Self, as in letting go of all limitations?

    My mind is a great advocate of English language; a right proper wordsmith, and when someone says to meditate "on" the Self, this would typically be perceived by my mind as a technique to place the focus on this object called the "Self". My knowledge of the Self tells me that it is not an object; not something to be seperated from any "other", but is all encompassing of everything, including the mind so, from a practical meditation point of view, the focus can't be placed on the Self because the focus is itself, a part of the Self, hence the "eyeball looking at itself" analogy.

    I don't believe I've ever said that the Self is seperate from the mind. Perhaps I wasn't clear in some previous writing? Of course we are all limited by what we can write to describe the Self as no words can fully describe it, just as a computer could never have the capacity to fully describe every atom of itself, except by simply Being itself (i.e. the computer just IS)

    Perhaps I get confused by your use of the word God. I don't see God as some seperate entity (as many in religious followings do), so it's not something that I would be entering discussion with.

    Likewise, what has concerns over the ways certain people market their products got to do with the topic of this thread? This is something you've raised on other threads before, and I feel it detracts from the nature of the discussion. If you'd like to start your own thread on the marketing techniques of spiritual based products, then by all means, do so, and those wishing to discuss it can do so there. I don't feel it adds anything to the original question I posed though unless, of course, I've missed the point somewhat?. :eek:

    That I can agree with, though it is the techniques, practices, learning terminology or some sort of model of understanding etc. that helps us get to that place where we can simply Be present and Be the Self; at which point we would no longer need those techniques and practices for ourselves. But it is good to know those things, so if someone else comes to us to ask us ... well... whatever questions they have, we can guide them with that information and let them experience it and turn it to their own knowledge.

    My question however, wasn't really about meditation to discover the Self, but rather what was meant by meditating "on" the Self. So far, I've found no explanation to describe to me what this actually means; nothing I can put into practice and experience for myself; and thus my present conclusion is that it's a difference in terminology and understanding, simply referring to the practice of meditating to reach the state of complete Awareness (Self).

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  16. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday Giles, your eyeball analogy isn’t in the least relevant to what you call the Self, Being, and I’ll also call God, for simplicity, and to avoid being pedantic. That’s only relevant to a limited viewpoint. I can see that despite what you say, you can’t understand that God is much, much more than human, and whether or not humanity exists has no bearing on God’s existence. Because of what I experienced, and I honestly don’t mean that in a smart alec, or arrogant way, it just happened, it honestly is easy for me to comprehend that God, Oneness, Self, can easily see God, meditate on God, focus on God whilst just Being God, from unlimited viewpoints, and in unlimited ways. Just as even, the by comparison extremely limited one quantum particle is in more than one place simultaneously.

    Along the same lines, we have conversations with our Self regularly.

    You say that you agree that meditation isn’t just when sitting, yet glaringly, you do the opposite. I can see that you truly don’t understand why I make my comments about Mind Movies etc. You see it as some meaningless, unrelated, interfering topic, which others have even described as an attack. I consistently point it out because, if yours and others aim really is Self experience and understanding, the glaring, consistent lack of Truth and Oneness is obvious. You either are Being Oneness or you aren’t. Buddha etc didn’t just get up and say, ‘I will help you end suffering, don’t harm’, or ‘don’t kill’, and then say, ‘ok, everyone here is a nice harmer, or killer, they are good, follow them, but the bad harmers and killers must go and we will not tolerate them for one instant!’ The duality you claim to have dealt with is the cause. Even when people are rightly questioning why Michael used the same tactics, you must leap in to defend the same that thing that you won’t tolerate and that you openly criticise in others. Some - thing has some - thing to lose if you take the consistent stance. A hallmark of realisation of Truth, of realising Being is just that consistency. It’s what makes the Spiritual, actually, truly realised icons stand out. They have nothing to lose by being consistently Truthfull, in fact it is their endless, Truth full nature. I don’t see the point of starting a separate thread that is about Truth, Oneness and simple honesty, which is the common thread of everything that this site claims to choose, and stand for.

    You either choose Oneness, God, Truth or you don’t. Lots of claims can be made, but again, you can’t fool your Self. Knowing, and talking about and giving advice about how to eat healthily, and eating healthily are extremely, totally different. Eating unhealthily is a totally different choice, and focus.
     
  17. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    You're right. I don't understand it. What you say does not fit with my own knowledge of what is Self and what I have experienced. I understand your concept of God being in multiple places all at once and the theory of quantum particles being in more than once place at once, but my own knowledge and experience of Self, if I could possibly translate it to words, would be something that has no time, no being in multiple places, no emotions, no senses, no needs, no "thing". In such a state of Oneness/complete Awareness there is no "need" to see the Self because one simply IS the Self, and likewise there is no "need" to meditate on the Self or "need" to focus on the Self. What would meditating "on" the Self achieve? How can it possible achieve anything when One is already complete awareness of everything? These questions are pointless because there is no goal to reach or achieve when completely aware of BEing the Self.

    This makes no sense. :confused: Are you saying that I only meditate whilst sitting?

    The comments about marketing do not relate to this topic. Mind Movies are not part of this website, yet you contantly target them in the posts you make. I certainly am not really interested in how they choose to market they're materials. Of course there are those who use hard marketing techniques but it is irrelevant and does detract from the question of the threads you are posting on.

    I fully understand that if I were consistently aware, then I wouldn't even talk on such forums as these, there wouldn't be a need to, though if someone were to come to me and ask me a question, I would be able to answer it in Truth. Of course, I'm not consistently aware, so few of us are, that's why we practice to increase that awareness.

    It would seem that if you yourself have experience of complete awareness, of Being at One with God, then you would not let these marketing things concern you, but recognise them for what they are and let them go. Yet you still persist.

    So you are saying there is a "them" and an "us"? The icons are better? different? not at One with us?

    If you don't believe that this site supports truthfulness then why do you post here? What's your purpose? :confused:

    So, Michael and those other sites could say "I've found enlightenment" and do nothing else with it except Be enlightened, but why should an enlightened person not spread the enlightenment with others? What better way to spread that knowledge, than to put it into forms that non-enlightened people will understand? Put bluntly, people live in a very materialistic world, and if you want to get their attention then 'marketing' techniques are the way to do it. Different teachings and techniques work for different people, so it's not going to be just a case of "use this one product and that's it, you're enlightened", it often takes time, nurturing, practice and understanding.

    As you are obviously fully aware and full of the knowledge of all God, due to your experience, I would be appreciative if you could answer the original question for me in terms that would be understandable to someone such as myself. I've been told to meditate "on" my Self, but as yet, no teacher has come forward to explain how this is possible. Just telling me that I don't understand or going on about the marketing used by various websites doesn't help. :(

    All your posting has done so far is just create more questions. Maybe my mind is tired, but I just don't get the point of your answers

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  18. Ramai

    Ramai Member

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    We closed our eyes for far too long, rejoice, enjoy, all is around.
     
  19. Bryan555

    Bryan555 Member

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    Giles just a quick note to say that I appreciate you replying to my posts, at such length. I realize that no one's time is unlimited, and you make an exceptional effort to be thorough.

    We don't always agree, but I do always value your thoughts...and your extreme generosity with your time. Much thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  20. Ramai

    Ramai Member

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    What a night so deep and dark for my soul that wept and cried. O so cold, and then the light, so much peace swirling around. Yet no colours, but you feel all that is about to be.
     

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