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Marijuana

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by maxxinit, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. Loran

    Loran Member

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    Who would call Bob Marley a "vegetable"? Not that I am the biggest fan of reggae or pot, but anyway.
    I would say drugs generally clouds the mind and emotions, lessening th ability to observe thoughts and emotions.
    I have quite some experience of Kava though. It is a very humble root, as they say. Works great for anxiety issues. However I find even that that can have a bit of a "dulling" quality to it, at least sometimes.
    On the other hand, I think that some substances do have their place when it comes to experience the spiritual, as the info in the reply before this one.
     
  2. bagheera

    bagheera Member

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    drugs

    from my current paradigm, here is what i think.

    as far as pot is concerned, i think there is a lot of bias by the people who smoke it. and there is a lot of myth and hype. people will often defend what they believe even if its been proven wrong.

    i have smoke pot, since high school, and i have quit a few times. and i have meditated through most of it. mind you, im not sure yet if i have been up to what you guys are up to. i will have a look at this coarse and give it a try.

    in a nut shell here is what i know about pot, and what it did to me.

    it stole my motivation.
    it made me nervous.
    it caused insomnia.
    it made me hungry.
    my over indulgence lead to lung issues, mostly because when i shared a joint with someone who was in denial about there pneumonia, or bronchitis, it got spread around.
    my lungs would not heal up, and illness was drawn out when i was sick and smoking (2weeks), as opposed to when i stopped smoking it.(3days)

    i have been sick. many times over. and currently i have mild asthma if im around the smoke.

    pot also lead to a feeling of insecurity. and i notice that chronic smokers suffer from anxiety and also emotional issues if they have been smoking for like 20-30 years.

    off the pot. my thinking is quicker, i am more confident, my reflexes are top notch, and i dont feel like a retard if someone asks me a question that involves thinking. that may have just been issues that i had tho lol.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    as far as drugs and meditation go. i have heard or read somewhere that monks refer to drugs and the feeling of enlightenment associated with them, as false enlightenment.

    reason being of coarse, is that your taking a short cut, instead of working your way up.

    anyhoot. i have seen a great many people advocate and push drugs on other people as a form of enlightenment. but from my third party prospective, it seems to me that they are doing this not only for personal gain, (if there selling it, or looking to be a guru), and or there looking to stroke there own ego's and eleviate a little insecurity about there lifes choices.

    mind you, thats just what i think.

    either way im not about to pop lsd, mescaline, extacy, or any of that junk, because the reality is if you have met anyone whos done that stuff for a decade or so, or got hooked on it. there pretty fucked up and unstable. not to mention unhealthy.

    perhaps its just excessive use that produces that. perhaps moderation is the key. i havent personally witnessed it or done any experiments or observations on the people i know who have done them. and since im about experiencing things for myself, im not about to trust some nameless docters paper on the subject.

    nyhoot. good topic.
     
  3. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Yup thats what drugs do... they manipulate the way you perceive the world in different ways. Enlightement is to drop your individual perception, to see the unconditioned truth, so drugs and enlightemend have not much in common, id say.
     
  4. ineffable_mysteries

    ineffable_mysteries Member

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    U like it u smoke it..its simple..
    there is absolutely no negative effects of pot smoking on meditation.in fact a lot of yogis smoke pot n i have never seen ne1 to be such hardcore smokers.
    it also depends on person to person,if smokin up makes u paranoid than i would suggest not to use it but if it gives u a nice happy trip which clears ur mind than u can definitely smoke up b4 meditating. the main goal of meditation is self realization n if pot helps u to think faster n more logically than it can b very helpful.


    i would not recommend depending on pot for self realization.this world is just an illusion.depending on anything causes weakness, like oxygen,if we stop inhaling oxygen we die,that is our weakness.u should not let external things control u.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  5. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Your point of view regarding drugs may work well you, but dont expect it to work for others. Drugs arent recommended for meditation, as they are rather an opposite for meditation. Meditation takes you to a level above your thoughts, where drugs take you rather to a level below your thoughts (like sleep and alcohol for example). That may be quite nice, but its not the goal for meditation.

    If it works for you, great! But dont expect it to work for everybody.
     
  6. ineffable_mysteries

    ineffable_mysteries Member

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    agreed.it depends from person to person.if ur paranoid and full of anxiety and if pot calms n relaxes u down than way not use it.

    [Drugs arent recommended for meditation, as they are rather an opposite for meditation. Meditation takes you to a level above your thoughts, where drugs take you rather to a level below your thoughts (like sleep and alcohol for example). That may be quite nice, but its not the goal for meditation.

    If it works for you, great! But dont expect it to work for everybody.]

    the goal of meditating is to free ourselves from materialistic needs and thoughts.and this can never be achieved by using pot.but this state of mind is very difficult to reach...its complete self realization,there is no1 to help u with this and u have to do it on ur own.

    in my case and hopefully in other pot smokers too...pot increases the speed of my thoughts..i can think faster,more clearer and more logically and im definitely not affected by outside circumstances.. and if it helps me in my realizations than y shouldnt i use it.

    however..as i have already mentioned that u should never depend on materialistic things as they create weakness. if i start to depend on weed for my meditations than i can never reach samadhi.enlightenment is freedom.


    [Meditation takes you to a level above your thoughts, where drugs take you rather to a level below your thoughts]

    depends on what drug ur talking about.weed, hash, DMT,shrooms and LSD can lead to some super awesome spiritual realizations and experiences..but drugs like heroin,crack,coke,e are just fucked up..and should definitely be banned.I love acid.its probably the soul reason why im hooked up with meditation and spiritualism.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  7. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    If you´re attending to be free of thinking with your meditation, why would you need "faster" thinking? How can self realization happen within the mind, the false ego? It is outside of the mind where freedom lies, where the thinking stops and the reality is perceived as it is, without mind filters and conditions.

    As i said, intellectual realization might feel good, but its only for the ego, and in fact it doesnt help at all to transcend the ego. Thinking is what we want to transcend with meditation, and because drugs interefere with that, it gets only harder by using them. Dont believe your mind telling you that you have achieved or realized this or that, because it just isnt possible "within" the mind to realize the self.

    Atb,
    Pan
     
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I suppose it also depends on your goal. What do you expect from meditation ?

    If your goal is to become more spiritual, and one or different kinds of drugs help you in your goal of becoming a more spiritual person, by all means.
    Most people in this thread aren't suggesting that drugs are to be avoided, they are suggesting that drugs should be avoided before meditation.
    This has to do with the effects of drugs on the process of meditation in your brain.
    Most people will want to reach the state of meditation through practising some kind of meditation method, and well, it is impossible to reach the meditation state when drugged.

    If you do meditate with drugs, and I count alcohol as well, most likely you will have a wonderful experience, see all kinds of colours, you might even have an insight of some sort, but all of this is not about reaching the state of meditation, it is about becoming a more spiritual person.
    Like I said, it depends of your goal.

    Well, you must be referring to Sadhu's, not Yogi's.
    Sadhu's may practice yoga as well as part of their daily ritual, but Sadhu's try to reach enlightenment through letting go of all their worldly goods.

    And those who worship Shiva, they smoke huge amounts.
    Funny how they despise all worldly goods except for their characteristic long white pipes for smoking ;) they can do without clothes and a house, but not without their pipe's. Somehow the word "Pothead" comes to mind.
    A lot of the older ones have obviously been at this a long time. Many have a beard that tickles their navel and long locks wrapped into a towering bun on their head (Convenient place to store your weed). They also have little muscles left and many have a bone-shaking cough that would make a lung specialist wince. And most of them have little energy, a lack of motivation, difficulty maintaining a train of thought, and scant attention to personal hygiene. And when shooting photos of these guys with a flash, using the red-eye reduction seems pretty pointless ;)

    It must be noted, though, that there are quite a few sadhus who don't smoke at all. Somewhere, somehow, they got the idea that it was counter-productive :confused: go figure ?!:eek:
     
  9. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Thanks Edwin, got a little more knowledge about these guys now :)
     
  10. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Truth be told, my vision on Sadhu's was somewhat one-sided and judgemental.

    I can't judge if these guys are enlightened or not. Most of my info comes from a few documentaries I saw, and they were quite one-sided as well, as the article depends on the viewpoint of the journalist.
    Most of the times Wikipedia gives a broader look, so check this link out : Sadhu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I think it's best to go by this article and not my little contribution :cool:
     
  11. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Sure, its just information i take into account, as always :)

    Ps: Been reading this book a few weeks ago, has been broadening my view of indian culture a bit Rampuri Baba - quite interesting!

    Oh my god, my english... theres something wrong with the "ing" form, i guess. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
  12. Grey

    Grey Member

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    ineffable_mysteries

    welcome to the forum and i have a favor to request. you seem to favor the use of certain expletives and being new to the forum you may not have read enough posts yet to realise that sort of language has never been part of our dialogue here. it would be appreciated if overtly objectionable words are omitted from posts. blatant vulgarity detracts from positive discourse and adds nothing. as one who has been with this community almost since its beginning i ask you politely as a personal favor to please refrain. thank you.
     
  13. akashaa

    akashaa New Member

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    Hi there, newbie here! Lol!
    Just wanted to say that, having being a smoker for about 5 yrs straight in the past, i can definatly empathy with your experience of, not being able to think straight, feeling lethargic, even being paranoi about everything! I had some very powerful panic attack a few years back, i thought i was gonna die! So i stoped definitly, well for a good 4 years! I heard loads of similar experiences with other users and one thing keeps coming back, marijuana simply intensify the mood or emotional state you are in, see, if you fear or arent loving towards yourself, seeing others like the enemies and have no self esteem, then guess what, all those feelings and thoughts will simply be multiplied by x amount of time and create an even greater feeling of all those emotional thoughts. I chose to smoke it again because i wanted to overcome all those issues, it wasnt easy at first, lol! I would smoke and straight away go into some kind of paranoia mode where i would be imagining all kind of bad senarios, but then i would pull out and say to myself how i was in security and all of those feelings werent real and guess what, it went away, still, there is a dosage you must respect, and this is your own body that will tell you that. Since, i have learnt to use it to tap into the most forgoten areas of my sub-conscious and sometimes come up with really deep realisations, always in visions, and if i dont speak it out to someone as they come or write it down, it simply vanishes as fast as it came and impossible to remember it.
    The reason why i feel we cant think very well or fonction correctly while under its influence is probably a good thing, depending off course what your doing with your day! Lol! Since thinking isnt always the best way to be in the present, its really helful to just cut off from the "drama", (most of the time, while high, within ten minutes of smoking the first spliff, you notice how the notion of time seems not to exist no more, i be looking at the time thinking, "ok, it has been a while i have been staring at the back og that chair" only to find its only been 9 ridiculous minutes!) So i feel its a misunderstood plant that has tremendous effects and medicinal proprieties if self-studied. It has also a miraculous effect on appetite, boy let me tell you about it!! I also started smoking it again as i became pregnant and the morning sickness was so bad that i nearly lost 14 pounds instead of gaining them, marijuana helped me to eat, whenever i had some around (wasnt easy to find!) It helps with aids patients as the apetite isnt there.
    Only talking from my experience, please dont believe me, live it.
    :)
     
  14. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    The same thing happens to me, I can pull up a ton of negative, bad crap from my subconscious and I have to write it down then I attack it later. It's like pot loosens up the mind and everything becomes more evident. But it also makes me lethargic and a person of non-action so I try to stay away from it.
     
  15. jocopa

    jocopa Member

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    Wow, this is one of the most interesting forums and threads I have read... I'm going to have to be careful not to waste too much time on here!

    I really like the comments made about the difference of using drugs and meditating without them... I never thought about it that way: Meditation and drugs can both get you to a similar state of "freedom" and being clear minded and not busy with thoughts... but by using drugs it seems to be a "numbing" of the mind putting you below the thoughts, and meditation is opening your awareness and putting you above the thoughts. Interesting, and makes perfect sense.

    One thing I may add:

    In life in general, if you come to an "outcome" through your attention and hard work.. through your own dedication and commitment, then it's almost always a much stronger, more satisfying and deeper result.

    For example, let's say you eat an incredible meal... if you have actually cooked and created this yourself, then it feels like an acheivement.

    If you've learned a new skill, let's say you figured out how to make a website on the computer... if you managed to do this all by yourself, then you'll have a greater understanding of how it works than if someone just showed you a program that let you click a button to do it automatically.

    Or, the difference between winning the lottery and becoming rich, instead of building up a real business from scratch around your passions.

    These are very bad examples and sorry I'm not explaining well today! But... my point is, it's usually a lot more enlightening if you reach a goal through full attention and committment.

    If you are using drugs, to try to acheive a similar state to meditation, then it's almost like cheating... You will never be able to reach the same state as when you are able to actually release the thoughts by the power of your own mind.

    I'm not meaning to sound anti-drugs, here.. but do you guys understand my point of view?
     
  16. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi there Jocopa and welcome to the community :)

    I totally agree with you about achieving a goal and doing it yourself - the real value is what you have learned and who you have become along the journey to your goal. Glad you like it here and wish you much peace and joy :) :) :)
     
  17. M L K

    M L K Member

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    "cheating"

    Hi, Jocopa and all,

    I must admit that I blew off brain-wave entrainment for many years because I thought of it as cheating, i.e., a way to get the benefits of meditation without the disciplined practice. :eek: Over the years, I have come to realize that good things CAN come easily, and I am so grateful for the BWE technology which I now use (usually in conjunction with meditation).

    As for using chemicals, I found in my stacks an old issue of Tricycle: The Buddhist Review, Fall 1996, which largely deals with the question of "Buddhism and psychedelics: help or hindrance?" Tricycle | Buddhist Wisdom, Meditation, and Practices for Daily Life
    Not sure if they have back issues available, but it might be worth a query.

    All the best, Margaret
     
  18. Euphoria

    Euphoria Member

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    Personally, cannabis actually got me interested in meditation! Mainly because I get more aware of subtle energies, the light body, and can relax and feel the chi flow. I've also had some of the deepest meditative experiences while high.

    I've had open crown-meditations on cannabis. Can't do it normally, not sure why, but it's the best stuff I've experienced, hands down. Opened my crown, and every chakra from the crown down to the feet got opened and activated, I was filled with light while the crown and third eye pulsated, I felt like my feet had deep roots and I constantly felt energy flow through me like I was a conductor between the universe and earth! It was euphoric, overwhelming and extremely blissfull. I felt more heavy then I've ever been, at the same time I also felt extremely light :)

    As for long-time use, I agree that it can be bad. Cannabis has a tendency to increase your awareness and does a lot of great things. If you have underlaying issues, cannabis can make those float up to the surface – and if you get stuck in such patterns, that expanded awareness can be the road to a self-conscious hell. If you get stuck in it, you litereally change how you think "permanently", until you snap out of it and have to "rebuild" how you "should" think.
    I started developing social anxiety and paranoia over time, because I didn't stop until I was far down that road. But it was always clear that this was because of childhood issues I had never dealth with, I had taken it for granted as it wasn't really an active problem.

    Now I've overcome the anxiety, the paranoia more or less, and the panic attacks I had I overcame relatively quick, though they were very intense. "Kundalini gone wrong" ftl. Also, after the panic attacks I started having lots of weird experiences, such as OBEs and hypnagogia which led me into the spiritual stuff in the first place :)

    I can't really smoke socially with people I don't trust 100% because of the unresolved issues (borderline PD), but I sure enjoy smoking alone once in a rare while, and it relaxes me to drop faster into, and deeper into meditation :)

    Probably a panic attack? Feels like you have an extremely high pulse, can't breathe, are dying or are going to be permanently insane, etc.

    I beg to differ. In case, I would consider myself very "sober" on cannabis, but naked. Like the shield has come off. The ego goes away, and the inner child comes forward to play :)


    I agree somewhat, but take into consideration that people are very different tho! I "have" borderline, passive-agressive PD & OCD, and when I'm high the compulsive rituals from OCD fade. I have no crave to do them, even if I try. Also, for a long time (2y +) I have just been postponing *everything* I should be doing in my life. When I am high on pot, I genuinely want to fix my life. I see things as they are instead of victimizing myself. I start to clean, wash, write plans, come up with ideas and how to execute them, etc. And yes — this includes what chris said, I can pull crap up from the SM easily, see it how it actually is and how I feel about it, and work on it with techniques such as EFT later :)
     
  19. MetaCognition

    MetaCognition Member

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    This is just my input, but as someone who used to constantly smoke marijuana (I have barely missed a day of smoking over the past 3 years), it seems like you are indeed using marijuana as a crutch. Now, I have smoked marijuana literally thousands upon thousands of "times." As I see it, people don't really react all that differently to marijuana itself, it's completely based on the person's conception of self and conception of the effects of marijuana.

    For example, some people get deathly paranoid when they smoke weed. Others get really giddy and laugh at everything. Others simply just zone out and stare out into space. In reality, most people will experience all three (and many more) of the emotions/feelings I just briefly mentioned in a single session, though certain portions might be more intense than others.

    Is this "marijuana" that causes this? No. Marijuana simply enhances sensory perception and it distorts the ego, but it certainly does not erase it. I have written about my experiences with LSD and DMT and those drugs DESTROY the ego. Marijuana is absolutely nothing like them.

    To connect this to my original point, all of the things you say marijuana does for you can absolutely be done in the "sober" state, and as someone who constantly used to talk about how I was "more sober" high, since I began meditating regularly all my desires to smoke have dissolved and I can see how clearly I was deluding myself. My ego was clinging to "pot user" as a form of identity, and my life without marijuana has increased exponentially in how much I enjoy every moment. I've lifted myself out of the fog that pretends to be the "truth" while you are on it.

    If you take any offense to anything I have written here, ask yourself: am I trying to form an identity around being a marijuana user or is this drug really helping me live a better life? You might answer the latter, and you might be right. That's for you to decide :)
     
  20. Euphoria

    Euphoria Member

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    If you smoked marijuana that often, you know that you get diminished effects out of smoking it ;) Of course, marijuana just acts as the key - a state of mind - it's not the cause, but subconscious beliefs and issues (memories/feelings) can get pulled to the surface and amplified depending on who you are (your perception).

    I'm one of those people that get paranoid when I am high in social situations. It didn't start out like that, and as I said, marijuana didn't cause it, but the state of mind that I am in when I am high combined with certain situations or words will trigger the deep feelings that someone is "conspiring against me", and I find myself building evidence and going in a paranoid loop, not being able to snap out of it easily anymore (it's better now, though I don't smoke socially anymore).
    I never said this was caused by marijuana, but rather that I/my ego finds a need to go into a paranoid fight/flight mode and because of that I start to look for reasons to be paranoid, and that it over time started to influence my normal though pattern.

    I never said marijuana (normally) causes ego death, but it surely allows you to temporarily think beyond ones ego. Look forward to read your experiences btw :)

    I agree with you, of course ALL of this can be done without pot, but it's been working as a shortcut - or crutch, for me. I've tried open crown meditation while sober, and didn't pull it off, though I'm sure it can be done with practice and if I can relax long enough.

    Sure I did – it allowed me to easily relax enough both physically and mentally so that I can meditate without having to get distracted by pain or thoughts, constantly change position because of back or hip pain, etc. (I have a physical condition as well).

    I'm not trying to defend anything, but I cannot deny what I have experienced when there has been a clear difference the times I have meditated while high vs sober. Oh, I don't smoke anymore btw (smoked once during five weeks now).

    I was always the guy in the "circle" that refused to call myself a stoner though smoking almost daily, because I didn't want to label myself as one :) I used it as a tool, because it does enhance time it takes for me to physically (and mentally) relax and end up in deeper meditation. Same thing with being able to feel subtle energies. I can do it while "sober", but it's faster and easier to feel and amplify the flow while high, after my subjective experience, which I think is due to cannabis can make you go easier into a alpha brainwave state.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011

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