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Marijuana

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by maxxinit, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. maxxinit

    maxxinit New Member

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    I'm starting this thread mostly because of another thread I just read written by a person who kicked his "marijuana addiction." according to him, it was suggested that he not smoke for at least 24 hours before starting lifeflow. My reasoning for this thread is because I have a few questions of my own on the subject, however i have a completely different view on Marijuana. Basically I'm inviting people who KNOW THE FACTS to answer this question for me:

    How can smoking marijuana possibly interfere with my meditative process?

    I ask this because as you have probably figured out, I do use marijuana. Also I'm interested in trying Lifeflow. I have been smoking for a very long time. I also have been practicing meditation for quite a long time. I see no interference with either. In fact, I as many others find marijuana as a useful tool for meditation because of THC's effect on the brain. It can take a person who is completely clustered with thoughts and stress and turn them into someone who can finally think clearly and slow their thoughts. The thread I read earlier claimed that Lifeflow increased his seratonin levels and he could tell because it was the same effect he got from smoking marijuana. But the facts are Marijuana in no way shape or form produces seratonin. Its not ecstacy. There is NO FACT that marijuana is physically addicting. Psychologically maybe. But as a person who goes from smoking quarter ounces a day for months to cold turkey for months on a regular basis, its really no thing for me. I simply use marijuana because i like it and it helps me. Also seeing how the only actual facts we have on marijuana's effects on health are completely positive (i.e. the build up it creates around your brain that has been proven to be able to protect against alziemers, and cancer from the throat up) and really little to none negative effects (i.e. There has never been a link to cancer, a death associated with long term use of marijuana, or an overdose which are all common misconceptions of marijuana) I dont see how it can have a negative effect on my Meditation. As an obvious pro marijuana advocate i'm a little biased. But i'm also very educated on the subject.

    I DIDN'T WRITE THIS THREAD to brainwash anyone or to convince everyone to smoke pot.

    I simply wrote this information because I don't know how many of you know these things and I really am curious as to whether marijuana use is affecting my meditation, however i simply didn't want to be bombarded by people who are anti-marijuana biased and have no actual experience with it.

    Thank you to anyone who is a little bit more informed than me on this subject and can answer my question truthfully, non-biased, and with factual information.
     
  2. JCG

    JCG Member

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    Hi and welcome to forum.

    You make some interesting points.

    I too have been social smoker of cannabis for a couple of years now, after a pretty nasty panic attack last november I stopped for 3 months. It has been in these last 3 months that I have finally begun to move my life into a positive direction and begin my journey into meditation and taoist energy arts. I have no idea wether or not smoking up will affect meditation. I only smoke now once or twice a week aposed to 7 days a week around 7-8 months ago and it feels great. I use it now as a little reward for myself if I have accomplished something in the day instead of how I used to, smoking it for the sake of smoking it which was mainly due to me having nothing to do in the day.

    Anyway im not sure how any of what I just wrote relates to your post, but in summary I am pro cannabis, especially in relation to alcohol.

    Jack
     
  3. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    I too have been debating the answer to this question, as I am a cannabis indulger myself... I have stopped since starting meditation and self-inquiry type stuff, but have smoked it a few times since as a test to see any discrepancies. I am fairly educated in this area as well, and I am very much pro cannabis. Should be legal, no doubt about it.

    Now this is just me personally, but I find marijuana puts a kind of cloak over my head, dulls me down almost. It is subtle, but present and it takes like a day or two to snap out of it to get back to where I was. It puts a limit on my mental clarity, not as much while I'm actually high, but afterwards. Because of this, sadly I don't smoke anymore. Maybe every once in awhile as a fun treat, but it really impedes my progress.

    Again, this is just my reaction to it, far from a general consensus. Hmm, just had an idea. Maybe a pure indica would have less of a mental side affect than a mental high dominant sativa strain??? No, must resist!
     
  4. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    I can only tell from my experiences. I was a heavy pot smoker for several years, the results from that were:

    - It massively pushed my insecurity. This is something i´ve seen happen to many pot smokers, but only for those who hadnt that much confidence anyway. But for 90% of my friends who smoked, there were some negative results on their daily routine behavior.

    - It slowed down massively my ability to think. I was a really fast logical thinker before i begun to smoke, and after that it slowed heavily down. It affected my creative thinking so much, that its nearly gone and i never recovered from that. And i stopped smoking 10 years ago (with 22, im 32 now)!

    - I once got some very strong stuff (supposedly dna manipulated from the netherlands), which caused an overreaction on my body, my pulse was about 230 for 30mins. That was a point where i saw the "other side", i was nearly about to go home. At that point i stopped smoking, and as im a bit sensible, i needed several years to overcome this fearful experience.

    As i said, i was a heavy smoker, i used to smoke every day. I believe that every stuff that influences your normal view isnt good for brain and body in the end, but of course it depends on the frequency of usage. Someone who smokes 1-2 times a month shouldnt have much problems with it. The same for most pain killers, alcohol or whatever.

    For me, it would interfere with meditation, as i want to be as most clear as possible to be able to see the truth, to see behind the curtain. Every substance that could possibly interfere with that, is a no no for me. But i also believe that some drugs can take you to points, where you can learn something... its just another path, which maybe one day leads you to a drugfree life, because life itself is the drug.

    My 5 cents :)
    Pan
     
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I don't want to start a "drugs is bad, shouldn't do drugs" ( South park :p) discussion, so I am going to leave the discussion on positive and negative effects of mahiruana aside.
    In case you wonder; I used to smoke heaps of the stuff. I now have a family and don't want to anymore, but this is a personal choice and I don't judge people if they do want to use it.

    Wether or not you agree, Mahiruana is in it's basics a series of chemicals (THC, G-proteïne, CB1 and CB2 and acetylcholine ) that induce the release of certain natural hormones ( like THC induces the hormone anandamide, from the Sanskrit word Ananda meaning Bliss ) in the body, in dosages that are not normal for the human body.

    These hormones affect our perception of the world.

    At first glance, this might be the desired effect for meditation.
    I mean, if it numbs your mind, you are on your way right ?

    Wrong !

    Meditation, as I must have repeated numerous times allready in the forums, is NOT and I will just for fun repeat it again NOT about numbing the mind or stopping thougts.

    It is about awareness, to be more precise: becoming aware of conciousness, the core of your existence.
    Dulling your mind with chemicals actually works the other way around from meditation.

    You see, conciousness is affected as well by drugs ( all drugs, including alcohol, not just pot ): the proof is in the pudding ---> Take too much drugs all at once, and you actually lose consciousness ! And if you are lucky, you might wake up again ;).
    There is however no drug in the world that can enhance conciousness. No, not even cafeine, or Guarana, or Gin-Seng, or whatever. All drugs can only affect your body, not your higher Self.
    This is also why the meditation course tells you to stay away from coffee for 24 hours.

    So, when taking any kind of drugs, you do the opposite of meditation.
    Meditation is about transcending thought, using drugs is going the other way, back to the basic animal form, because you don't just numb the mind, you numb conciousness as well. Again the proof is in the pudding: I have seen lots of people who used a tad too much alcohol, mahiruana or other drugs that thought they were pigs, dogs, some bird ( I can fly !!! ) or whatever.:D:D

    Actually numbing consciousness is not quite the right way of saying it, but it will have to suffice for this explanation.

    So you can meditate for hours when entoxicated, but you will never transcend thoughts, because your hormone level is keeping you below thoughts.

    You can of course play a bit with the hours.
    If for instance you smoke pot in the evening, your meditation might be affected the next morning, but the next evening you can quite safely meditate and after meditation smoke again.

    If you smoke all through the day... that is an entirely different story.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  6. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Well put Edwin!

    Especially in your country, where pot is legal available, its a temptation. Both alcohol and THC put your mind down to less-thinking, whereas Eckhart Tolle describes how human can raise his conciousness above thinking.

    Ever heard about DMT? I´ve read a book a few months about it, it seems to be the only drug that doesnt (directly) affect someones conciousness, but rather catapults someone out of his body. But that happens in a way, that its hard to get fun out of it :D
     
  7. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    what about shrooms? I have taken them before, and my perspective on everything changed a lot, and it was more clear headed and internal than anything else, almost like temporary enlightenment or something. Really interesting. I have been wondering what it would be like taking them now with the insight and understanding I have gained since that glorious day in high school.

    I have also read that intense experiences while using psychedelic drugs can have long term impacts on the psyche, for better or worse depending on the experience. Totally off topic here but just something that has interested me.

    I have heard about DMT, a few friends of mine have done it and said it is like a 20 minute peak of LSD, whatever that is, and really intense, almost overpowering. Not my cup of tea, but I can see the appeal if your looking to drop off the face of the earth type thing. I've heard salvia is nuts in that regard, way too scared to ever try it myself.

    I hate polluting this forum with drug related chat, but their affects on the psyche are undeniably interesting...
     
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    You guys are kind of mixing up 2 different things here.

    When it comes to drugs+meditation, that will never mix. Meditation only works when as sober as possible.

    There have been those that used certain kinds of drugs and got their "moment of insight" from that.
    Ramm Dass for instance, and the comedian Bill Hicks: positive drugs story ( Youtube ) as well.

    So, drugs might aid in initiating enlightenment. However it also might not, and I know that most people don't have such experiences from using drugs, so I am not sure if that is the path you want to take. Serious meditation and self inquirery have a history of being more effective.
    A simple "enlightenment pill" sounds great tho :cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  9. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    haha yeah definitely mixing up 2 things, meditation doesn't work unless you have a clear sober mind, totally agree.

    And I definitely wasn't saying I found an enlightenment pill or anything (although that would be handy, would save the planet!) it was just an experience that is common with that drug, kind of like a fake, twisted period of clarity, I just wonder how that happens is all. Definitely going to stick to self inquiry and meditation :)
     
  10. Grey

    Grey Member

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    Ram Das suffered a massive stroke that left him with severe disabilities. his example of experimentation probably is not the best one to emulate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  11. d2iekan

    d2iekan Member

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    I have to agree with Panthau to every degree in this case especially that i quit weed recently. I have been a heavy, everyday smoker for many years.
    The way i quit simply realised that i no longer enjoy how it influences my mind and especially my mind. Funnily enough it was not gradual, i kind of "snaped" and since then weed makes me paranoied.
    Basically,as others said weed doesnt go along with meditiation although it may seem it has calming affect on your mind. It just becomes "muddy" so it may seem easier to have control over it. Since i quit my clarity of mind started coming back plus i dont have problems with motivation any more.
    The most noticeable thing , which Panthau pointed out, was decrease of all my insecurities to such a level i can say im almost my old myself again.
    Maybe i did nnot say anything new but i hope that my post can support the fact that weed like anything else has a tremendous influence over you. And it is saying a person who still thinks its a very good drug out of any other substance.
     
  12. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Or maybe it is... ;)
     
  13. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    When it comes to drugs+meditation, that will never mix. Meditation only works when as sober as possible.

    There have been those that used certain kinds of drugs and got their "moment of insight" from that.

    Ramm Dass for instance

    I used to smoke cannabis and do LSD in the 70s and I can say that they were only helpful because they started me on my spiritual quest. This was also true of Ram Das. He experimented with LSD but it didn't satisfy because he always came down again, so eventually he went off to India where he met his Guru, Neem Karoli Baba (or Maharaji). Maharaji asked RD to give him some LSD, and he ingested a huge amount but nothing happened. He was already 'there' so it had no effect on him.

    I know of people who still smoke regularly and often and they're nice people, but the trouble is, they're in the same head space as they were in the 70s. There's nothing wrong with that I suppose if you want to coast through life, but if you're looking for spiritual growth, the real and lasting effects come from meditation with a clear mind and applying the insights in daily life. It takes perseverance and determination but it brings such happiness and peace of mind. :):):)

    Wishing you all such joy
    Bhavya
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  14. Midnight

    Midnight Member

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    I think the biggest reason drugs feel so good is because they allow you to feel disidentified with your thoughts. Both times I tried Marijuana, I lost all inhibitions and did whatever I wanted. My mind said no, but my body said "What's it matter if someone's watching?" I literally watched thoughts in my head go by and I would listen to them. In that sense weed, "revealed me to myself" as Bob Marley once said (I think). That little push can probably spark the fire of consciousness, but it's probably not the best thing to do to become enlightened.
     
  15. Sunflowerk2

    Sunflowerk2 New Member

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    anecdote on the subject

    This made me think of something funny from my distant past.
    Back in 1974 while in college I attended a Transcendental Meditation class and before it began the teacher said. "Anyone that has smoked marijuana in the last 30 days cannot take this class". Promptly over half of the class stood up and walked out! I've been meditating ever since.
     
  16. sliccy

    sliccy Member

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    Hey guys,

    This is my first post in a long while :)

    I wanted to thank the OP of this thread, that was very insightful information, thank you. I personally haven't done any research on this, but I will explain how it is from my personal perspective. To me when it comes down to compare meditation and marijuana, it's a different state of awareness. Both seem to have some similarities, but they're not quite the same. To achieve the state of "high" with marijuana you're inducing some kind of chemicals (not judging weather they're good or bad) in your body. While meditation is a more natural way of achieving an altered state of mind, in my opinion. You get yourself in a harmonious, calm, peaceful, and happy state of feeling combined with neutralizing your thoughts. While with marijuana you inhale an herb which contains THC (and other stuff maybe? Idk).

    I do both, and I enjoy both, hence they help me on my path to enlightenment. So for me marijuana is a spiritual practice (I don't like the munchies that it gives me).


    -Andy
     
  17. Space Fox Now With Lasers

    Space Fox Now With Lasers Member

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    2 cents

    Just putting my 2 cents in here. I am a regular weed smoker. (about a quarter a month) I have cut back since starting meditation because I want to have a completely clear mind during my sessions.

    Do I think marijuana is bad for the mind? No. I think it has been one of the most beneficial things in my life. My experience with weed has been only positive.

    Sometimes I like to mix weed with LF, but only for fun. I always get the WILDEST body sensations. I feel like a weigh 500 pounds and I am in a state of complete relaxation. Sometimes I'll feel like my body is being stretched into space, or that I'm spreading out like a ball of ice cream melting in the sun^^
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I see no problem with that ! Always keep your meditations sober !
    That's so weird, you completely discribed how I felt during meditation when I was focusing on the feeling "I AM" for the first time ! :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  19. John Christian

    John Christian Member

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    I have smoked pot on and off for many, many years. I feel personally that they do not mix for me. I do meditation (now Lifeflow) for many reasons but to become enlightened is not one. Enlightenment is just realizing who is aware. Aware of thoughts that say i am John and this is my story etc. Awareness that there is no real thing outside of this moment except presently arising thoughts that John believes. However John seems to have his own karma, desires etc that seem to have little to do with this awareness.
    John has no control over the millions of circumstanses that come together to create addiction ect. In fact i am that which witness's Johns actions including having the desire to smoke or not. John has gone many years without smoking while doing intense meditation and sadhnas and has smoked a pound in 6 months. As October creeps closer John begins to think more and more about it. My only hope is that Lifeflow and other things John adds to his life will lesson the anxiety and desire. Or he will smoke again. Within John there is a war about this. Two stories playing over and over.
    If "I" can just watch this. Stay as I the witness and let john do what he will maybe John will not feel the need to smoke. If not, if I"I get cought up as John too much the John will smoke.
    Heres hope that "I" as pure soul, as awareness, as self, can be see by itself deeply enough...
     
  20. fshortt

    fshortt New Member

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    Just thought i would remind people that plants like cannabis and shrooms and other hallucinogenic plants have been used throughout the ages and still today by sages and shamans across the globe. And yes, it has been and still is used for meditation as well as spirit journeys.
    Personally i have been brought up in the norse shamanic traditions passed on through my great-grand-mother to me. I have been trained in the use of certain shrooms, as well as cannabis - both for healing (physical, mental, emotional and spirituall), for meditation and for spirit journeys.
    It is not that one relies on the plant for this purpose, but to commune with the plant as an ally can be helpful and insightful depending on the purpose.

    However, in relation to cannabis and meditation - one only has to look to india and the "sadhus" (holy men).
    "Bhang (Hindi: भांग, [bʱaːŋɡ]; Punjabi: ਭੰਗ IPA: [pə̀ŋɡ]; Bengali: ভাং [bʱaŋ]) Persian "bhanga", is a preparation from the leaves and flowers (buds) of the female cannabis plant, smoked or consumed as a beverage in the Indian subcontinent. [1]
    The traditional harvest and preparation of bhang occurs during the celebrations of Holi in March and Vaisakhi in April, hence associated with Lord Shiva. It has now become synonymous with Holi, to the point where consuming bhang at that time is a standard practice.
    Bhang Ki Thandai (Hindi) is a drink popular in many parts of India which is made by mixing bhang with thandai, a cold beverage prepared with almonds, spices, milk and sugar. Consumption of Bhang and psychotropic substances has been forbidden by certain Hindu religious sects such as the Shikshapatri."
    Wikipedia

    or to south american shamanism, or for that matter north european (even norwegian shamans since at least 1500BC)

    I just want to state that this is nothing for or against the practice, but as the people on the thread seem interested in the subject there is a lot of history (and literature) on this worth looking into before having too strong opinions.

    kind regards
    fshortt
     

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