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Hello everyone

Discussion in 'START HERE: Registration & Introductions' started by Kendoji, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. Kendoji

    Kendoji Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I recently started doing Holosync again after a break of a couple years (I'm on AL 1). As I was getting back into it, I did some reading online and came across this site. I'm gonna be honest here and say I'm quite sceptical of the claims made by most entrainment product companies (including Centerpointe), but after a few emails with Jodie from LifeFlow support I've decided to give LF10 a shot (my curiosity has been piqued by all the positive reports on this forum).

    I'm not new to traditional meditation, having lived in Buddhist monasteries for a few years and done quite a few retreats. So far I still need to be convinced of the efficacy of entrainment as a meditation aid, but what I already enjoy is the fact that these soundtracks make it easier for me to maintain a daily sitting regimen.

    Over the next couple weeks I'll decide whether to continue with LifeFlow or Holosync. Are any of you using both solutions simultaneously?

    Best wishes to all,
    Ken
     
  2. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Welcome Kendoji, and sorry that I missed this post.

    I noticed that a lot of new members get discouraged when they don't get immediate answers from the forummembers, I hope this is not the case with you.

    I myself have no experience with holosync or any other entrainment product, just LifeFlow.

    And it rocks in my opinion !

    Please join us in the forum discussions :)
     
  3. Kendoji

    Kendoji Member

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    I'm not so easily discouraged, but thanks Edwin! :)

    I've been enjoying LF10, although it seemed to be much more effective in the first day or two than it has been since then. It's often reported that certain types of entrainment lose their effectiveness within a few weeks (hence the Holosync modality of lowering carrier frequencies), so I'm curious about the long-term effectiveness of LifeFlow.

    Anyway, I think I'll be participating in the forum, and will probably continue to LF9 at least.

    PS I'm also in Holland! (Amsterdam)
     
  4. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Ha, een Ajax fan ! ;)

    Actually, the losing of effectiveness regarding entrainment is a bit of a myth, that has been introduced by certain entrainment companies to improve their sales.
    You see, brain entrainment is about two things:

    1. it will generate a frequency inside your head that corresponds with a certain brainwave state.
    Your entire brain will try to match that brainwave frequency, slowing towards the level that the entrainment is nudging towards.
    LifeFlow does 40 minutes ( mp3 ) or 60 minutes ( CD version ) of only that one brainwave state. It takes the human brain about 8 minutes to adjust to this entrainment frequency, so it is crucial that the frequency does not change during that process. http://www.project-meditation.org/c...23-what-exactly-lifeflow-what-can-do-you.html

    Other entrainment products than LifeFlow will start at a "normal everyday state" usually Beta and slowly progress towards Delta, with the idea that it will gently move the brain into the deepest state. Nice thought, but bearing in mind that it takes at least 8 minutes at the same frequency for the brain to adjust, it might be considered less effective.

    2. The entrainment of LifeFlow will try to give one side of the brain one frequency, and the other side of the brain a slightly higher one. This causes a difference, that the brain will try to solve by making extra connections through the corpus collosum, the bundle of nerves that connect both hemisperes of the brain. Because of that, there comes better communication between both hemispheres, which according to scientific studies is a key to what traditionally is known as "enlightenment". check out this movie : Jill Bolte Taylor's powerful stroke of insight | Video on TED.com

    LifeFlow 10, that you are using right now, works in the Alpha level, and will cause a certain part of your brain to make new connections between both hemispheres. If you were to use it for about 2 months, all connections that need to be made will have been made in that particular part of your corpus collosum, and you are ready to move to the next frequency, making new connections. If you have done the entire series, like I have from 10 to 1 and the 2 gamma bonus tracks on top of that, you are free to listen back to any level of LifeFlow. It is recommended to listen to different levels, because neural pathways have a tendency to be broken down when they haven't been used for some time, to allow other connections to be made.

    check out this highly interesting part of the forum:
    Learn How You Can Benefit From Project Meditation! - Project Meditation Community Forum

    It will clarify a lot to you :)

    Groetjes,

    Edwin :)
     
  5. twinkletoes

    twinkletoes Member

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    Hi kendoji

    Just wanted to say hi. I joined project meditation in march 2008 but had a bit of a blip in my health so i am starting again from scratch. I did find though how quickly I relaxed when I began lifeflow and how much calmer i was. Do check out the benefits of lifeflow as suggested by Edwin it explains all the levels.
    happy meditating x
     
  6. Kendoji

    Kendoji Member

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    Thanks guys.

    I've read the materials, and am already quite familiar with entrainment. Aside from using Holosync I've also used the excellent Transparent products Neuro Programmer 2 and Mind Workstation.

    This point about ramping down not working, and that it takes 8 minutes to entrain to a steady frequency, where does it come from? Are there any scientific studies that validate it? Because I'm quite certain that it's not entirely true. In some cases the brain might indeed more readily entrain to a steady frequency than a moving target, but anyone who has listened to other entrainment products that either ramp or step down incrementally (like Holosync) knows that it definitely works. The Dive, the first part of the Holosync soundtracks, is extremely effective - you can really feel yourself going down gradually. Whereas if you just listen to the delta track, Immersion, it will be virtually impossible to entrain directly to such a low frequency. In fact virtually every entrainment product I've ever heard of uses ramping. This leaves me really curious about how the later levels of LifeFlow work.

    Is there any scientific basis for this assertion?

    I hope people don't find my way of thinking negative - but I will question these types of claims if they're not well backed up (there is a huge amount of hype in this field). :)

    Cheers,
    Ken
     
  7. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi there Ken and welcome to the community. I completely understand where you are coming from and I agree there is a lot of hype and marketing in this field and many others, for example nutrition.

    Pharmaceutical companies would greatly suffer financially if awareness was brought to the public how important it is to use nutrition that is made only from whole food and not chemicals. There are many huge marketing companies out there with poor products, however there are fantastic products available also - it's a bit like finding a needle in a haystack.

    Here's what I have found after many years of trying various products including the ones you have mentioned.

    They all probably create sensations or feelings which would lead you to believe that something is happening so hopefully it is working.

    The big difference I discovered with Project Meditation and particularly with LifeFlow is the incremental changes it has made in my daily life which after a couple of years now are huge.

    When you find whatever works for you, you may find as I did that you don't need to look any further.

    It initially takes approximately 8 minutes to entrain to a particular frequency although the more proficient you become with meditation the less time it can take you.

    There are many good posts in the community by some very experienced meditators, teachers of meditation and audio technicians which may prove helpful to you. I wish you much peace and happiness :) :) :)
     
  8. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

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    Newbie Thoughts.....ramping

    Hi Ken,
    I have been pondering your post for a little while. I am a newbie to LifeFlow and I was reflecting on my thought processes in December that brought me finally to the conclusion that LifeFlow was worth giving an honest try.

    Your email mainly, rightly so, requests where is the scientific basis for the main unique aspect of Lifeflow amongst entrainment products. In fact, your question forms one of the main reasons why I selected the LifeFlow product. The gradual nature of the LifeFlow system where one meditates at the upper edge (Alpha) of the sleep brainwave spectrum then progresses layer by layer towards the bottom of that spectrum (Delta) holds as my main rational for choosing LF. This gives our precious grey matter an opportunity to be exposed gradually to the left-right sync process that forms the basis of all entrainment products. As such, our memories that are stored can be allowed to be witnessed and processed (observed with no reaction) gradually as we move towards delta brain wave levels over time. It seemed important to me to also use each level for at least 60 days.

    The fact that meditation used with LifeFlow is stated as key for maximum benefits whereas Holosync advertises “plug in and listen” came a close second to the main reason why I chose Lifeflow.

    So to sum up my long post, the ramping that other products have just seemed way “too fast” and the lack of meditation practice just seemed way “too easy”.

    There is my 3 cents from a newbie.


    take care

    jim
     
  9. Ravo

    Ravo Member

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    G'day & Welcome Kendoji,

    I won't try to emulate Edwin's, pollyanna, seatrends or twinkletoes answer :)nearly half as well but this lot are great on support and they actually care. All the best and I hope you hang around for a long tome to come, Cheers Ravo
     
  10. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    Hello Kendoji!
    I thought the name was familiar (from Gaia's Holosync pod). It is a small brainwave entrainment world after all!

    I've just started on LifeFlow as well and intend to alternate it with Holosync for a while. Hopefully we can exchange experiences, since it is probably not a very common practice. (My impression is that Holosync users tend to have an almost religious dedication to the product. Actually the more relaxed atmosphere around Project Meditation is part of its appeal, along with the great support folks of course.)

    The ramping process in Dive consist of 3 sections, each of ten minutes. This sits well with the notion that the brain uses around 8 minutes (without practice) to entrain on a frequency. So the fairly steady lowering that you experience is, for most of the time, your brain homing in on a new frequency. I experience a pretty clear discontinuity (and a momentary dizziness) when Dive starts a new ramping. It seems like a good idea if you've never been to theta or delta before. On the other hand, it also seems like a good idea to start with easier levels first, the way LifeFlow does. If I had known more from the start, I would probably have bought LifeFlow first of the two.

    Looking forward to hear more about your experience.
     

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