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Hard to reconcile

Discussion in 'The Law Of Attraction' started by enlighteneduk, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. enlighteneduk

    enlighteneduk Member

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    Was reading a story in the paper yesterday. A 16 year old boy was desperate to learn to drive. He plagued his Mum to have a go in the car ( presumably off road as he isnt old enough to drive here in the UK). He got in the car when he was waiting for his Mum to come out to drive him somewhere, and got in the drivers seat. I cant remember the exact ins and outs, but he started to move the car, and saw his Mum behind him. He mistook the clutch for the footbrake and crushed his Mother against a tree with the car, killing her. The inquest was yesterday.

    Yes, he attracted this terrible tragedy by his actions in driving the car, but how on earth is he going to face the consequences for the rest of his young life? Can you imagine going to sleep every night, in his minds eye, the look of pain and terror on his dying Mother's face, knowing that he had caused it? He wasnt a teenage thug who killed his Mum deliberately,-not the first time this has happened- he loved her, and just wanted her to teach him to drive. I just cannot imagine how the Universe will ever be able to repair his life? Any thoughts on this, folks?


    Heather

    Heather
     
  2. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Heather,

    All LOA Guru's will tell you that it is impossible to affect other's people's lifes with the LOA directly. We can't "order" people with the LOA to do something for us. With the right attitude they will do things voluntarily.

    Even tho his determination to learn to drive lead to this horrific accident, the accident itself is not a logical culmination of his action or mindset.
    If this were true, nobody would undertake any action with the LOA, because the endresult might be desastrous.

    I know that in "the Secret" it is said that all that you have experienced so far is the direct result of what you have attracted.
    This is a simplified version of the truth, and because of it's simplification, it is hard to understand completely.
    Yes you attracted it, but it is the how you attracted it that matters, not the fact that you did attrackt it.
    You see, all suffering is caused by the mind. If you live your life with gratitude and acceptance, you will attract a lot just by the effect your positive mindset has on the universe around you ( and that means that people around you will gladly provide you with what you need, just because of the person you are ). The same goes for a negative mindset, you will never get a break ( or recognise one when it is presented to you ) when your mind is constantly being negative.

    And finally:
    Killing someone can never be caused by the LOA, because the LOA never works if you want to use the LOA to affect someone. You can only affect your own life, and as a result, affect the people indirectly around you with your enthousiasm.

    The difference is subtle, but it is there.

    Now of course this is all academic to that boy.
     
  3. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    We can also look at this from the point of view of karma. Buddhists stress that it is the intention behind our actions which is important. The example often used is killing someone with a knife. A surgeon, intending to heal someone, may in the process kill his patient whereas a murderer would have done so deliberately.

    In Buddhist thinking we have mental imprints or habits - kleshas if they're negative ones - and these determine the way we live. Let's say this boy has impatience as one of his. That caused him to get into the car and perhaps start fooling with the controls with its unfortunate results. We could say that he';ll never recover but perhaps that's not true. OF course there will be terrible guilt and grieving - but there may also, eventually, be some good outcomes from this. Perhaps he will choose to make amends by not only learning that impatience can be disastrous but also by choosing work that will save lives or help others.

    Heather, it sounds like you have compassion and empathy for this boy. Why not send him some loving thoughts? Ask that he find healing and picture him receiving it along with his family. It can only help you both.

    Bhavya
     
  4. sliccy

    sliccy Member

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    First of, Heather I want to apologize that my next question will be totally off topic. But I absolutely have to ask it.

    Edwin, I read your post about 10 times before I decided to ask you this. Please don't get the wrong impression that this question is coming from a bitter source, but rather from a source of confusion.

    Do you truly believe that everyone attracts everything with their thoughts?

    I know I do believe it, but I can't help ask myself what about the 150 some million that were murdered, and killed in the 20th century? What about the millions that died in the holocaust, the thousands that died in Rwanda, the quarter million that died in Bosnia? Did they really want to attract those circumstantces in their life? Even better to ask, was every single one of them unaware about the Law of Attraction, but still died regardless?

    I can see how certain "bad" things (breaking your leg, doing bad on a job interview, bankruptcy) that you attract into your life can benefit you. Learning from them, becoming aware through them etc. But how do you learn from dying? I mean, if you die that's it, you didn't learn anything from it to benefit you, not in this life time at least.

    I think the Law of Attraction gurus have to come up with a slightly better explanation, then just "they attracted it with their thoughts". I don't think anyone wants to consciously attract anything like that.

    Thanks for reading

    -Andy
     
  5. enlighteneduk

    enlighteneduk Member

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    Thanks Bhavya,

    Lovely thought, I will do as you suggest. Edwin, thanks for that, as it does make sense, but I can see what Andy is saying too. Any further thoughts on this? For istance, a friend of mine, a very good living Christian, lost his wife and two of his children in a car accident. Did he somehow attract this?

    Heather
     
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Andy and Heather, I was searching for words in my previous answer, and I was not clear enough obviously.

    Not all can be accounted to the LOA. The LOA is part of life, not life itself.
    What I was trying to make clear is the exact opposite of what you seemed to interpret from my post.
    Like I said, the LOA only affects the person who is responsible for the "vibes", the good or negative thoughts.
    What does this mean ?

    If you think about bills all the time, you will attrackt more bills ( it's not just thinking about it, it is the powerfull emotion behind it that triggers it ).

    If you think about making money all the time, you will attract money.

    This boy from your first post wanted to learn to drive passionately, and his mother gave him that chance. The LOA delivered what was asked. The accident was not asked for by the boy. It happened, and he has to live with it for the rest of his life, and that is terrible, but I don't see how that can be linked to the LOA other than the fact that the circomstances that lead to the accident came from the LOA. But that is like saying 1 + 1 = 3

    Also, before answering Andy's question about the mass murders, I would like to point out that there is more to it than just 1 person and the LOA.
    There are lots of people living side by side that attract things, and there is a certain interconnectedness ( or as they say in Buddhism, everything is connected, nothing is seperate ).
    This is the factor that makes it more difficult to get what you want, the Universe is working with everybody around you as well. And that is why real passion to achieve your goal resonates more clearly and this person who has this passion will achieve his goal sooner.

    Now to get to the mass murders part.
    First of all, the LOA doesn't judge. We humans do. What we consider evil means nothing to the LOA.
    It delivers what your passion ( positive or negative ) asks for.

    So, you might ask, does that mean that they asked for to be killed ?
    No, they didn't.

    They were killed by other people, and that is terrible.
    Remember, The LOA can only affect the person who is responsible for emitting the passionate thought.

    The person who killed his fellow man or woman, didn't send out vibes of killing that person, he just did it.
    The victim didn't send out vibes to get killed, he just was.

    Because of the simplified way that the LOA was presented to us in the Secret, we just might interpret it wrongly, thinking exactly what you were thinking: What about someone who gets killed, did he ask for that ?
    What about rape, child abuse, assault...
    No, they are not generated by the LOA unless that person specifically asks for it ( and I can't imagine why anyone would ).
    There is more to life than LOA alone.

    What the LOA guru's are trying to make clear is that certain parts of your life can improve if you passionately want it to !
    That is why they say that your current situation is the result of how you have been using the LOA so far, usually on autopilot.
    That your thinking at this moment is keeping you from growing, and that a new mindset will change your life.
    If you have passion about your goal, you will achieve it. Numerous movies have been made about people going through numerous problems before reaching their goal. What kept them going ? Their passion !
    There will be problems anyway ! If you keep going for your goal, you will surpass your problems and get better from it.
    The LOA is not about eliminating troubles in life, it is about overcoming them !

    There is even an example of a person who wanted to become a millionaire, and as soon as he achieved it, he gave it away to a good cause ! Now he knew how to use the LOA, and knew he would never be short on anything again. He was looking for a new challenge !

    he had faith that he would reach that point he visualised in his mind.
     
  7. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    (Please excuse the long answer) :D

    A very interesting thread.

    Do people consciously attract bad/negative things? I think we have to look at the conscious/unconscious mind connection. Let me give my understanding if I may.

    Firstly let me pose this to you..

    Don't think of a Banana.

    If you've read that, then you've thought of it, whether you want to or not. You didn't have a choice in the matter. Your unconscious mind can't do the negative of something in that way. If the consciousness says not to do something then that "something" (rather than the "not something") is being brought to the attention of the unconscious mind. The unconscious mind cannot comprehend "Don't".

    How often we see parents with their children in the supermarket; the parents telling the children "Don't touch that". But still the children do. The parents have enforced the childs focus on the object they didn't want them to touch... so the child is even more focused on it (and usually the parent gets more frustrated and angry etc.) Better would have been saying what they actually wanted the child to do i.e. "Come here and hold my hand".

    This aspect of the unconscious/conscious mind connection relates to the use of positive affirmations. Rather than telling ourselves what we don't want in life, we re-affirm how we want to be (and we do it as if it's already happened in the present moment, but that's an aside to this topic).

    Next, we have to look at the aspect of self-destruction in the mind...

    Consciously, people can very easily say they want something, but the unconscious mind believes otherwise.

    As a casual complementary therapist, I have had occasion to treat some people who tell me they want to lose weight, but no matter how much they try, nothing works for them. If I use muscle testing on them I can find that they have, what we would call in EFT terms, Psychological Reversal or in FreewayCER terms, Resistance Ambivalence. Essentially what we find is that their unconscious mind believes the opposite of their conscious mind. Consciously they want to lose weight, Unconsciously they don't want to. We can then do various little tasks to ascertain why they don't want to lose weight. e.g. It may be that if they lose weight then they will no longer have an excuse to not go out with their friends to a night club, and the reason why they don't want to go out to a night club could be because they feel insecure about socialising with strangers, and so on and so forth, until we find out the root cause of their social anxiety which we can then treat.

    The point is, the conscious mind is a personality (persona = latin for 'Mask') on top of the unconscious mind, and neither the unconscious or conscious mind is our True Self, but we must work to bring the conscious and unconscious mind back into synchronisation before our True Self can recognise itself and not be under the control of the mind. (By True Self, I'm referring to the unchanging observer; that part of us which observes the thoughts, the memories, the senses, the emotions etc. as they change, but which itself does not change).

    So, we all believe that a person could not possibly want to be killed during a war etc. and rightly so as this is the ideal that the mind would have us believe. Yet if we observe our unconscious mind we can catch glimses of the thoughts passing; we can catch those thoughts that are hating or angry towards others who are perceived to be the cause of the war (or whatever), even created thoughts of the future where we can see ourselves being caught up in such a war and perhaps being killed. It is difficult for us to feel, in Buddhist terms, unconditional compassion, for those we percieve to be causing the misery around us, and hence it is those non-compassionate thoughts that are attracting the situations to us or us to the situations.

    I'll be the first to admit, it may not be an easy concept to grasp, and there will be those people who disagree or resist this concept; and putting it into other situations to give us understanding may not be simple; the terminology may change depending on the situation and situations can be hellishly complex to try and put into simple explanations of the mind.

    So, let's look at this situation of the teenager who has accidently killed his mother...

    He saw his mother in behind the car.
    His conscious mind was saying something like "Don't run over mother"
    His unconscious mind was focused on "mother" and "run over", creating a case of psychological reversal and preventing his True Self from being present.
    His focus was not on the pedals, but his unconscious mind knew enough about which pedal was which (probably from previous driving lessons or watching others drive), and as such his unconscious mind pressed the pedal that would act upon his focus... his mother and running her over.
    He was not in the present moment, but instead his mind had taken control of him.

    It's a tradegy, but it happens to all of us every day, in small ways and big ways. (I know I've driven down the road, seen some debris in the road and my mind has thought "Don't hit that" and I've ended up manouvering right into it, whereas had I stayed on course I most likely would have missed it).

    So how is this teenager going to deal with what he has done (the question posed at the start of this thread)?

    Rather than us all dwelling on the thoughts of him leading a miserable and tortured future life (because that's what we are all thinking, we have to admit), let us all think of him now in the present moment, peaceful and recognising that it was an accident and that his is not to blame for it. Let's all think of him in a life where he can recognise his True Self from his controlling mind and has taken control of the mind and is able to put himself in the present moment to do good and bring peace to those around him.

    Thoughts have power. We must use the mind as the tool for which it is intended; rather than letting the mind control us.

    I wish him every success in his life.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  8. enlighteneduk

    enlighteneduk Member

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    Thanks Edwin and Giles, that puts things into perspective much better. Regarding visualisation, I had real problems with this, yet years ago, I realise now that I was extremely good at it, and manifested things I daydreamed about with passion! Many years/traumas/knocks left me with no faith or even the ability to day dream seemed to have vanished. Meditating with LF has been a big help, but I also found a short ebook by a quantum physicist, Dr Eric Amidi, who was part of a group who discovered Top Quark, the last subatomic particle, at Fermi National Laboratory in 1995. This stirred my curiosity and I bought the ebook. Yes, there is a lot of stuff in there that I have already covered, but his process for the visualisation, has been a big help. It really gives a step by step break down, and has given me much more focus again.

    Heather
     
  9. sliccy

    sliccy Member

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    Thank you Edwin, and Giles for taking the time to write up such big posts in detail that are easy to understand.

    There are a few questions I'd like to ask about certain details of your post Giles, but I just thought about another over all question regarding the Law of Attraction.

    Here it is, we are saying God, or Being whatever you want to call it. Is all powerful, has higher intelligence and knowledge we can't even begin to dream of. Why would God than come up with such a flawed system such as the Law of Attraction? It just seems to narrow in a way, even though we say "I didn't want that credit card bill" you will put further energy into it and amplify it more. Why wasn't God able to just use logic when it came to this? If you said you didn't want it, well than you won't get it. Simple as that.

    Forgive me if I am missing out on something, but this to me sounds just like our current predominant religions. God is all there is, God loves you, blah blah blah....BUT! He is also jealous! It's not OK to kill people, but if God tells you to it is...etc etc (I am just using these examples to clarify my question, I do realize that some of my examples might have been inaccurate, and over exaggerated)

    Thanks

    -Andy
     
  10. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Before going into your question, I think it is vital to know how you see God.
    I can explain you my vision, but I would rather not try to change your point of view. Everybody has a different view on this, and is entitled to I think.

    If your view resonates with mine I would like to try to answer your question.
     
  11. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Ditto what Edwin says.

    Define what God means to you and then it may be easier to answer using your terms, and perhaps also give an answer in our own terms.

    ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  12. sliccy

    sliccy Member

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    I apologize for being a little unclear in my question. I figured this would happen, I should have not used that example to get to the bottom of my question.

    I will try to use a different approach at asking the question again.

    It just seems to me that the Law of Attraction is lacking logic in a way. It seems to me as if you almost kind of have to "trick" it into doing what you want it to do, or else it might trick you into what you don't want. Or at least it seems to me at least.

    For example: someone has a thought "I don't want to be sick", to the Law of Attraction (from what I have gathered so far) you would be attracting sickness regardless. Instead your thought should be "I want good health", while I do see how this works. I can't see why the first thought "I don't want to be sick" couldn't not be valid as well.

    The answer to what do I believe God is, or how I view it. I frankly don't know, I really don't. I suppose I am open to anything. Most theologies imply that God is everything, so if anything this pattern in recent religion is hinting me that God could be "believed" in many different ways. But really, I don't know....

    I hope that made more sense, thanks for reading.


    -Andy
     
  13. Still Waters

    Still Waters Member

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    Taking your statement "I dont want to be sick"

    The subconsious mind does not work on the sentence or on language at all.

    Rather it works on pictures or images, which are created by what you are thinking about. Therefore if your affirmation is "I dont want to be sick" - The image it produces is of sickness. The subconcious does not understand words like don't because it cannot make a picture from it.

    Therefore the affirmations we are making and thus the pictures in our minds need to be positive so that its instructions are clear.

    We can actually go one step further. "I want good health" is not the best affirmation either. This is because "wanting" is easily achievable. The subconscious will say ok you want it so you can have what you are asking for - which is wanting good health rather than having it.

    A better affirmation or visualisation would be to state it in the positive as if it is already achieved.

    Something like - I am enjoying the benefits of good health.

    I hope that helps. I am sure others will be along to make it clearer

    Chris

    AKA Harry Haddock
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  14. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    Renegade view

    In my view, for what it's worth, some of the confusion about the LOA you feel is due to the fact that most of the current popular teachers are mistaken about a very critical point. They will tell you that the LOA makes you 100% responsible for everything and everyone that enters your life. This, they tell you, is a required belief so that you can "take responsibility" for yourself and not be stuck in the role of the victim.

    While it is true that taking responsibility for yourself is critical, it is simply not true that absolutely everything in your life is the result of your thoughts and feelings either now or at some time in the past. There are and always will be some things that come about as reactions to what other people do. This is a truth that current popular teachers of LOA simply can't accept because they feel it disrupts the symmetry of an otherwise beautiful theory.

    Each of us is part of a grand Unity. You can call that Unity "God" or give it any other name you like. Yet at the same time each of us has also been given the great gift of Individuality. This is not an illusion. That Individuality is very real and very necessary. If it wasn't; if we would be happier just experiencing the Unity and nothing else then the fact that we possess and experience Individuality would constitute an unnecessary and wasteful expenditure of a lot of energy on the part of the Unity which granted us this gift of Individuality in the first place. If Unity was really all we need in order to be happy then we should have remained in Unity and skipped over this individual life we have now and we'd all have been happier and farther ahead in the game.

    But that's not what happened. So either Unity has made a tremendous, wasteful error, or else there are critical reasons why each of us has been blessed with a sense of Individuality. For myself, I believe the latter to be the case. We are as we are for good, in fact necessary reasons.

    It is, I believe, a great mistake to think that our ultimate goal should be to extinguish Individuality and return to nothing but Unity. Clearly, to experience both things at one and the same time must be superior to experiencing just one to the exclusion of the other.

    If this is so, and I have no doubt that it is, then one of the great lessons we all have to learn is how to relate to, and interact with other Individuals. But if LOA really means that absolutely nothing comes into our experience unless we attract it, then that's not really relating to anyone else. That's just relating to our self in a virtual vacuum. That would serve little purpose.

    But because others can and do encroach into our world in very real ways over which we have no absolute control, we are forced to grow by learning to cooperate and co-exist on that Individual level. This, I think, is no less important than the way we all operate on the Unity level. It is a different mode of existence, but equally important.

    Certainly utilizing LOA principles helps us to have greater influence over our experiences and circumstances, and a person who learns to consciously influence things in a positive way on a consistent basis is bound to have a generally more pleasant and rewarding experience of life, but no matter how proficient at this they become there will always be some elements that are not pleasant which arise out of our interactions with other people. Perhaps it does spoil some theoretical symmetry, but it is true nonetheless.

    Anyone who doubts this need only consider the case of an infant who dies shortly after birth. It would be absurd to think that in those few moments of life that infant did something that attracted its own death. For those who subscribe to the notion that the death was the result of karma from previous existence, then the law of karma would be seriously flawed since death to this infant comes before it has time to experience this new life. The infant feels nothing of any "punishment" or "consequence" for any previous actions. It has not the cognitive capability of appreciating the experience of this loss of mortal life because it lacks the cognitive capability of understanding what it is losing. Nothing is re-balanced in this way and no karmic debt would be repaid.

    On the other hand, if the LOA subscribers say that the child's death was attracted by some other person, perhaps a parent who had karmic debts of their own to repay via the painful loss of a child, then these LOA people would have to admit that in fact the parents (or whoever) DID attract a consequence that directly affected the life of another (the dead child, in this case,) which, again, cuts right across the grain of that beautiful symmetry.

    No matter how you view it the conclusion is inescapable that people do and always will have some degree of direct influence on other people regardless of how proficient those other people are at using LOA in their own lives. And when these sorts of things come into our lives we acknowledge that they have come to us; we determine the most useful way to respond to them, and we press forward and become better, more developed Individuals because of it. THAT, is the true "taking responsibility for our own lives."

    I suspect such an encroachment could be at least in part responsible for the example given about the teenager learning to drive from the mother. Perhaps there was some attraction involved but then again, perhaps this was a case in which the actions of others simply overlapped into that young person's world with catastrophic consequences. It happens. Popular LOA teachers will never admit this because it doesn't sell books, audio programs and seminars as well as telling people they are absolutely able to create every facet of their lives because they are taking 100% responsibility for everything. But that's not surprising. Seldom in history has the truth ever been a best seller.

    I do believe, however, that the Unity, which contains the sum collection of all intelligence, probably intervenes on a fairly regular basis in order to shape our experiences and to insure that the things that happen in our lives ultimately work towards our greatest good. For example, if you and I were to meet in person I am confident that either one of us, if we chose, has the capability of acting in ways that would be hurtful to the other, regardless of the LOA. But would the Unity allow that to happen? If it was for our greater good, yes. But if such would not work for our greater good I am confident this great, unified intelligence would directly intervene in some subtle way to prevent those actions. Possibly by making certain we never got to meet. Maybe in some other way.

    I think there is much good we can do for ourselves via the LOA and related principles. But I think we should also take comfort in the knowledge that, though we cannot deliberately shape everything in our experience, that greater Unity is always there in the field, an absolutely infallible fail safe to insure that everything works out for our greatest good. Even those things which at present we perceive as tragedies.

    Does that sound a bit more reasonable to you than the "everything that comes into our world is 100% our own responsibility because we attracted it" hypothesis?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2009
  15. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    In Holland we call this " Having the wind taken out of your sails " ;)

    You guys pretty much covered all I wanted to say and more :)

    Sliccy, I wanted to know your view of God in reaction to this post:
    I have some homework for you now !:rolleyes:

    Reading back your initial quote, your belief into God seems to hint towards a Higher Being, a superintelligent, all-powerfull mind, a person if you will.

    I didn't want to alter that belief, but since you have said that you don't know what to think or believe (yet?) I can safely tell you what I think:

    I do think that there is a higher intelligence, like a field of information ( rather than a person-like God with an actively thinking brain about what is to happen when and where ) from which all arises and all goes back to, both the physical world as well as that of creativity and presence. This field is constantly changing, yet it's base is the same. This base can be found when in deepest meditation within ourselves, when we surpass our individual mind and see "the observer behind the observer"

    As you might have read allready in older posts here about the LOA, especially this one : http://www.project-meditation.org/community/eckhart-tolle/904-new-earth-eckhart-tolle.html
    There is a cohesion between enlightenment and the LOA. I suggest you read this entire thread, especially the long posts by D. James Albert, should be about an hour, very... enlightening if you will.

    If you want to understand the LOA, you have to understand the Universe, and to understand this, you have to practice meditation to reach enlightenment, in whatever degree.

    You see, we have two brain hemispheres, and for every day life we need our left side the most, it is calculative, mathematical, knows how to handle an agenda, understands time only by clock or date.
    This part of your brain will never understand the Universe. The Universe is too complex to ever be categorised, even tho scientists are doing their best.

    We are constantly stimulated to use the left brain from a young age, because our society revolves around our calculative brain.
    There are those who rely more on their right brain, and those are sometimes looked down upon for their "strange clothes" or "weird behaviour".
    They are commonly known as artists.
    If you want to know how that side of the brain works, check out this inspirational video: Jill Bolte Taylor's stroke of insight | Video on TED.com


    Enlightenment comes when the brainhalves start to work together.
    The intelligence of the left brain is not shut out like in the video of Jill Taylor, but it is enhanced by the creativity of the right side of the brain. People who experience this, change for the rest of their life. They become both inspirational spiritual people, but also very intelligently inspiriational people.
    A good example is Albert Einstein.
    It is not proven in any way, and I would not know how to prove it anyway, but it is my strong belief that Albert Einstein was enlightened. Check out some quotes on the internet by him, and try to remember that he was the one that created the formula that explains our physical world.
    Albert Einstein Quotes

    Strangest thing is that numerous people who experienced this "awakening" used to be atheist, but could not deny the presence of God and a higher interconnectedness afterwords. It took a higher intelligence, one that goes beyond that of a calculative brain, to see the "bigger picture".
    "Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” Albert Einstein

    Sorry for all the links, but I am hoping to lift your viewpoint beyond that of your left brain hemisphere alone. It is ok if this is too much to handle, it took me a few years to accept all I have written. My world has become a lot prettier since I have changed my view tho.


    I wish you the very same :)



    BTW, this book really helped me with my current view: Amazon.com: The Quiet: Four Simple Steps to Peace and Contentment - Without Spending Your Life on a Mountaintop: Paul Wilson: Books
    especially Book B ( Book A is meditation techniques, book B is enlightenment techniques )

    and of course the book by D. James Albert ( the Realization System ) is wonderfull as well !
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2009
  16. sliccy

    sliccy Member

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    Amazing, this thread is getting better and better!

    First of, I'd like to thank everyone for taking their time to analyze my rather unclear questions once more. I think there is still a lack of communication (on my part).

    Ta-tsu-wa, thank you for the post. That was very informative, and insightful. I heard of that before, by Eckhart Tolle I believe.

    I think Eckhart Tolle describes this by the amount of presence there is in you. If you are present enough, other peoples thoughts will not affect you. Also, I have heard of collective consciousness, which I understood to be a sort of gathering of peoples thoughts, and beliefs that will have an affect on you regardless as to what your thoughts and beliefs may be.

    Please let me know if I kind of understood what you meant to say, I may need to read your post again.


    Edwin, thank you for the links you have provided, I will be sure to check them all out.

    Now in regard to my question that you quoted, I do realize it was a little bitter and narrowly put together. It does not describe my current beliefs at all, it used to I guess but I have given up on religion awhile ago (please don't let me confuse you again, my sense of spirituality still exists I just don't believe in any particular religion).

    When you asked me what my vision about God was, I was uncertain how to exactly answer that question. Which is probably because I have a general idea, but I am always up for new ideas and views. God as a field of energy, or information that you described is not a new concept to me.

    I have not read Paul Wilson's books, I have read the CwG trilogy. It covers everything you tried to explain.

    That is exactly what my original question was all about! You were explaining how the LOA does not see words or sentences, but yet it does.

    This still goes back to my entire question, why would it matter to the LOA if I said "I want good health" as opposing to "I am enjoying the benefits of good health". Why would the LOA, forgive me for using this word, be so stupid? It seems like, if I say the affirmation in present tense it's good, but if I say it in future tense it's not good and LOA will not attracted "good health". I mean, it just seems like the Law of Attraction is not very smart, either that or it's just me that isn't!

    I feel like a Lawyer that is trying to bend the law into a way that will convince the jury in my innocence. That is really what it feels like, almost as if I have to manipulate this system to get what I want.

    And I just cannot help but feel a very big disconnect with this Law of Attraction when it gets to this. If it is me that is not understanding, or misunderstanding something please point it out to me.

    Thank you everyone once again


    -Andy
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2009
  17. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Well, you hit the nail on the head.
    If it's future tense then the unconscious is saying "yes I can give you that belief that there will be that thing for you in the future... there we go... done" It has not problem giving you "wants" as they are easily achieved. A want is always a want.
    If you put it in the present tense, you are convincing the unconscious mind that it already has that thing. If there is an unbalance between what really is and what the unconscious mind believes there is, then we become attracted to the things that help to remove that unbalance and achieve what the unconscious mind is believing. Hence the law of attraction.

    Yes, you could say that the law of attraction is not smart, and why should it be.

    The law of attraction is really our mind. So yes you are having to trick it so that you are using your mind as the tool it is intended for (you are in control of your mind)rather than the mind taking control of you.

    The law of attraction is not really some external entity with an intelligence of it's own, it is a part of every one of us.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    agreed :)
    The LOA doesn't care about words, at all even !
    Thinking words will even amount to no result !

    We need to be this clear about our goal because of a translation error in our brain rather than outside our brain.
    You see, it is our emotions that trigger the LOA. The ( for lack of a better word ) vibrations we emit come not from words at all.

    However to trigger the emotions, we need to describe a goal that our emotions can easily pick up. When the message we give our emotions is dualistic or unclear, we get unclear or dualistic emotions, and those are less powerfull.
    The biggest problem is that here again two brainhalves are at work, mind is left hemisphere, emotions are right hemisphere ( at least the "higher" emotions, basic ones like anger and fear come from the "old brain" which is like an extension of our spinal cord, sometimes referred to as our "lizard brain" ) and the communication between them is poor.
    This is why LOA guru's say that you have to visualise your goal as if it is allready there, like you are living the life you visualise. This will emit the strongest vibrations from the strongest emotions.

    So, looking back at your question, you tried ( again ) to give the LOA personalised intelligence, so I guess your view of the world/LOA/God isn't yet free from a "One God, one ruler" viewpoint.
    In order to be stupid, there has to be a brain. There is no brain. Only Presence.

    The collective intelligence I was talking about is not an intelligence that can be understood on a "human intellect" level as I tried to explain in my last post.
    Try to think of the intelligence of a tree, growing towards the sun, avoiding the outlines of a road where cars and trucks race by, because the space which the trucks drive within is harmful, and this is remembered by the tree even tho it has no brain.
    Take 2 acorns from the same tree, plant them on a distance of a few feet apart, and even tho the basic shape "tree" can be recognised, neither one will grow exactly the same, as the tree adapts to the part of the world it exists in. How ? Does it recognise the difference on an intellectual level ? On an emotional level ? Or on the level of Presence ? It seems intelligent design, it is even, but no mind has been used to design it. If you feel a hint of what I mean, but can't rationalise it, you are starting to "see" with both sides of the brain, as feeble as the connection still is at this moment.

    In a way, we might even say: Why is our brain so stupid that it can't automatically emit the right vibes in order for the LOA to work ?

    Still, your question is a very good one, because the answer will ( hopefully if I was able to bring across what I wanted ) give you more insight, and insights lead to enlightenment just as much as meditation.

    So keep on asking :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2009
  19. flossie

    flossie Member

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    I just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this thread for all you thoughts and informtion. I have been having a lot of questions like Andy and have found this really good reading, although i admit i am going to have to go back over it all a couple of times to really get it all straight in my head.

    thanks again and good luck on your journey everyone

    April
     
  20. enlighteneduk

    enlighteneduk Member

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    Wow!! I have been away for a few days, so I missed so many good replies until now. Thanks guys, some fantastic food for thought there, never thought my original thread would provoke so much wonderful discussion!!

    Heather
     

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