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Focus on breathing or not?

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by J&J, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    We sound very much alike. Wordsmiths and an interest in the mind. :)

    Indeed there is awareness and then there is "complete" awareness. A focused awareness is not complete or true, it is being controlled by the mind.
    The point of the mantra or meditation is as a tool, not a goal. As an analogy it's as though we spend most of our time stuck in our house, with our focus on our house and everything else being "out there". The mantra or practice of meditation is like the front door; it's a means of getting from inside the house to become one with everthing in the universe. Once we've stepped through the door, we no longer need the door, as it represents a seperation of the everything from the inside of the house. Focusing on the door means that we're standing in the doorway, as if afraid to take that final step outside for fear that the house will disappear.

    And don't get me wrong, although I don't believe in the Christian God in the way that many do, there are a great many valid truths in the teachings of Jesus; though it is a shame that many are distilled or misinterpreted by the churches that teach them for their own aims.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  2. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    To be or not to be.

    Gidday Giles, I hear what you are saying and I understand what you mean when the focus or awareness shifts from the mode of meditation to whatever makes the whole thing possible, and why witness, beingness, presence etc are used to try and describe it. I just feel that to first even choose that direction, then maintain that state takes focus. And as long as you choose that inward direction all outward sensations are then actually experiences of that presence, or beingness.

    But just like when someone gets super healthy and fit, unless that remains their focus, its easy to lose focus and slip backwards focusing on a new direction. So, even the likes of Buddha, Jesus, Saints, or whatever we call such people who choose that direction, live and act in ways to sustain and promote it. Their focus is unlike someone who pays no regard, and lets their mind wander according to unchosen habits and sensory stimulation. Even Pollyana's just choosing to push a button and meditate takes a choice, a focus that someone else might not take. Then it seems like the stronger that focus, ie, the more emotionally driven, and the more habitually practised, in any direction (love, love is God), the stronger the result.

    For instance, imagine if Michael Mackenzie didn't evaluate and question meditation techniques. Or if he didn't remain focused on creating his technique, and perfecting it. We wouldn't even be having this discussion. If even now he let his focus shift to say, billiards, and passionately pursued it, excluding much of his present focus, his life, and our lives would all be effected. I've actually seen this type of thing happen. Alexander Everret used to be a famous teacher of a method similar to Silva, literally the founders of modern mind power courses, LOA style courses, the Alpha thinking style of seminars. He placed great emphasis on mind power, the power of the mind. Then, suddenly at one of his seminars he announced that he had experiences which showed him that much of his thinking was actually not correct, and that he had to totally reassess his stance, and advocated to all present that they should visit a man named Sai Baba, where they would experience and learn much more than he could ever teach them. 90% of people present were disgusted and wanted their money back, despite only minutes before having thought of Everett as a super teacher, a genius in his field. Peoples lives and focus changed in a myriad of ways.

    Focus needn't be limited to human ideals, but I see it as a measure of choice. Even the witness chooses to be self aware, to enjoy and focus on themselves at a level beyond human limits.

    All the best.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2011
  3. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Ah yes, focus of the mind on the task that is in the present moment before us, is of course important. That is the true purpose of the mind, to be a tool for us to use in the present moment. Unfortunately, the mind very often switches things around and starts to be the controlling entity, taking it's focus here, there and everywhere; anywhere but the present moment. ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  4. Hazelkay

    Hazelkay Member

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    focussing

    Having read this thread with great interest, I am adding my two pennorth, for what it is worth.

    If ' awareness is wandering all over the place' - I would regard this as thinking rather than awareness. Thoughts come up and we are aware of them but as we pay them no attention they fade. They are all a product of energy, vibration, combustion, atoms arising and fading away. If we think the thoughts actively, then the wandering occurs.

    I don't regard 'awareness' as a product of the thinking mind. The body is a constantly changing phenomenon as is the world - just combustion and vibration, nothing remaining as it is even for a microsecond. Body and mind are inseparable so thoughts are energy also arising and disintegrating.

    I think if there is any sense that I am doing this - as in - it is my focus that is making this happen - then we are off track. For me it is about not doing, not interfering, rather than an active if I am doing X then Y must surely follow.

    Hope this makes sense - I find that the products of meditation are not validly expressed by the tools of the mind.
    peace and joy
     
  5. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday. Heres another direct quote from this site.

    'Create the life you truly want with project meditation. The LifeFlow technology will help you to focus, think clearly, feel grateful and good. Whatever you focus on and feel grateful and good about you bring about.'No mention that if we learn to focus on our true self, the ultimate, which is often described as unlimited abundance, bliss etc, it doesn't work. For some reason, suddenly, according to the mind, the almighty unlimited Being isn't so, in fact, cant do that, cant do two things at once?

    My original reply highlights the inconsistancy sometimes glaringly present in this field, which for some reason goes unquestioned. The original poster asked about focus, whilst using Lifeflow, a topic often discussed here. One of the answers revolved around always being able to find time... despite the answerer describing pretty difficult life circumstances. Yet, as seen in the quote above, this is the opposite to the results we should expect from meditation. I liken this to Mind Movies etc, etc, etc who promote easy, effortless techniques to create the life we truly desire. Yet, they too describe incredible stress, and hardship whilst setting up the business, again the exact opposite to what they promote. But, even more interesting to me, is that despite giving you the answer, the method to create the life you truly desire, they then do an email blitzkrieg, imploring you to purchase all the other courses that you really need. No one has adressed any of this.

    My gut feeling is that focus is involved, a key to life (LOA), and as some pretty successful meditators throughout time have made clear, a key to meditation technique. There is also no explanation of why the creator of Lifeflow has released a course, Enlighten Q, which improves meditation, and which intensely focuses on and trains the ability to focus (there's that nasty word again!!! No I wont, I refuse! Never, no matter what!) ??????

    One of the LOA techniques practised is to choose the direction, the creation you want, as if there are no limits, as if anything is possible.

    'Create the life you truly want with project meditation.'

    If thats not happening, either its choice, or our meditation isn't doing what its meant to. Which could be a technique which isn't up to it, or due to our incorrect practise of a technique that is. It really does interest me that people dont question things much, or dont quickly change. Why, how can Mind Movies sell anything? Mind Movie practioners already supposedly have sold an effortless, incredibly successful technique, so what gives? Why the need to sell you another? In the same vein, if our life isn't, quote, 'the life you truly want with project meditation', despite years of diligent practise, why not be incredibly open to wondering why? To change? Why not change the focus, to focusing on our true self, because, remember, 'Whatever you focus on and feel grateful and good about you bring about.'
     
  6. Hazelkay

    Hazelkay Member

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    Ananda

    There is a story about Ananda, after the Buddha had died.

    A group was formed to continue the work and only those who were fully enlightened were able to participate. As Ananda had been the Buddha's personal assistant and had the gift of remembering every discourse of the Buddha he was exhorted to meditate and move from the first stage of enlightenment 'Sotapanna' to the final stage. Ananda had been very effective in teaching and helping others to meditate so, having been given a time limit, he set to work to achieve enlightenment - he had helped others to do it so he surely knew how.

    He worked without rest, with complete focus, but as the time limit was almost upon him he knew that he was not there. With only a few minutes to go he gave up and laid himself down to rest, saying 'I am only Sotapanna'.
    In that moment he became fully enlightened.
    peace and joy
     
  7. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    This thread has kind of been hijacked.

    If you guys feel like discussing this more, I would kindly ask all of you to start a new thread.

    The original starter of this thread hasn't told us if the answers were useful.
     

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