Experiences of LF 9 - LF 1?

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by tango, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. tango

    tango Member

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    For those of you who have progressed beyond LF 10, what have been your experiences of the subsequent CDs/downloads? Some people have commented that the meditation is "deeper," but what is meant by this in real terms? What words or concepts would you use to characterize the quality of the meditation in the CDs/downloads that follow LF 10?
     
  2. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    I´d be interested too in those questions.
     
  3. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    I think you're going to find the answer is different for everyone because the experience of meditation is such an individual thing. For myself as an example, I experience the benefits of meditation in my everyday life and not necessarily at the time I'm sitting and practicing. My resistance to stressful situations increases, my health remains more stable, I have more patience with my loved ones. The longer I've practiced meditation the greater these kinds of improvements have become.

    But I think you're really wanting to know how the actual meditation feels different as you go deeper into it, correct? I can only explain it from my own experience of meditation and that could be totally different than anyone else experiences it, but I'll give it a try.

    For me, the process of meditation brings up a feeling of peace and stillness. The deeper I am (and I suppose this would mean the brainwaves were slower) the more profound the sense of peace and stillness. The only way I can explain it is with an analogy.

    I've been alone at night before in a large office building when there was no one there but me. And it was quiet, still and relatively peaceful. I've also been alone in a gothic cathedral before (at least there was no one around that I could see or detect.) It was quiet, still and peaceful, but compared to that office building I mentioned the cathedral was even more still and peaceful.

    You might wonder how that could be, given that in both cases I was alone, the lighting was subdued, it was quiet, and so forth. How can you be more alone than alone? How can you be more quiet than quiet? It doesn't make logical sense but all I can say is that when it was still in the cathedral it was a deeper stillness than in the office building. The quiet was deeper, the peace inside I felt there was deeper.

    That's similar to the difference for me in using LF-10 and a lower track. In my meditations I feel stillness and peace but the deeper I go the more profound those sensations become. It doesn't make logical sense but that's how I experience it. I think you're going to find the difference is something you have to experience for yourself. In a way your question is asking people to articulate something for you for which there is no real articulation. It's a personal experience that can't be shared without some common frame of reference. And if you already had the common frame of reference you wouldn't feel the need to be asking the question.

    I think that's where that old saying originated from. "Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know."

    Those with experience know there isn't any way to precisely communicate that experience. It's an exercise in futility. Those who believe they can explain it to you haven't enough experience yet to realize it isn't something they can communicate, so they gleefully press on trying.

    My analogy with the office and the cathedral is only an approximation of my experience but its maybe as close as I can express it in words. I hope you don't take my expression for your own goal because getting hung up on trying to experience the same thing I do will likely derail you from having your own unique experiences.
     
  4. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Id be more interested on how Lifeflow changed your life
    in the deeper levels. Those success storys are mainly from lvl9-10 beginners,
    it seems like its making them happier, releasing old things and feel calmer. Does
    this continue the same way with the same intensity (i mean for most people, as everyone is a bit different), releasing old things until lvl1? And from there, is it "only" meditation or also for endless releasing negative thoughts and believings?

    Maybe i put more in it then there is. Im thinking about holosync and its promises and then the google ad from lifeflow, where you get told that holisync is good but lifeflow is much more powerful.

    Hehe i have a picture in my mind from a child asking its parent how
    it feels to be an adult...

    Pan
     
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    This is THE opportunity to get this clear:

    Ta-Tsu-Wa was very correct to answer this question by talking about meditation instead of LifeFlow.

    The only thing that can bring these kinds of releases, or make people more happy, or make people feel calmer, is meditation.

    The only thing LifeFlow can do, is speed this process up with, well about 30 years brought back to one.
    If that alone is not amazing enough for you, ask for a refund ;)
    If LifeFlow could do this without meditation, this site would not be called Project-Meditation now would it ?

    LifeFlow is not magic in a way that you get a lightshow during meditation, or find yourself floating 10 inches from the ground, or whatever you might expect from it. It is just, and this is my personal opinion, THE VERY BEST entrainment product in the world, that can deliver amazing results in an amazingly short time of usually about a year. Practice meditation every day, with LifeFlow, for a year, and you will agree.

    If it is reassurance you want if you made the right choice buying LifeFlow, trust me, if you continue using it, your life will change :)
     
  6. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    It was meditation and practices like it that are responsible for the changes in my life. LF just helped me move along quicker than I would have on my own. I practiced meditation successfully for years before discovering LF.

    Again, it really comes back to your personal reasons for practicing meditation. Some people practice as a spiritual discipline. Others don't believe in the spiritual at all and they practice for stress reduction or for the health benefits. I have friends who are members of a Buddhist sect that uses chanting as a form of meditation and they chant while holding things in mind that they desire, like more money, a better car, a bigger house, the right partner or other tangible things. If I understand them correctly they believe this meditative chanting virtually empowers whatever it is they desire so that it manifests in their lives. I don't know if I completely believe it is so simple as that, but they believe it is and that's why they chant/meditate.

    My personal beliefs lean towards the spiritual side of meditation. I believe we all have a connection to a Supreme Creator. You can name that Creator anything you like; God, Tunkashila, Universal Intelligence, Brahman, Allah, Great Spirit, or whatever. But by whatever name you choose to name it, I believe we are all inseparably connected to it and a part of it. We've lost our full awareness of that relationship.

    My personal belief is that meditation brings us back into greater awareness of our connection with this power. Natural side effects of this restored awareness include feelings of peace, better physical health, better mental health, improved functioning in all mundane aspects of our lives. Our relationships become more harmonious. We don't feel the negative affects of stress as much. I don't mind doing things that are not pleasant as much anymore.

    Those are things I've noticed, but I attribute such improvements to meditation itself with LF just speeding up the process. I also think it's a mistake to think that deeper stages of meditation are "better" than higher stages. In other words I don't believe theta level meditations are "better" than alpha level meditations. Meditations using LF-2 are not "better" or "more desirable" than meditations with LF-10. To me meditation is more like a well cut diamond. I look at it one way and see its beauty. I turn it to a different angle and it presents me with a different view of its beauty. Another turn and I get yet another view. With every turn I view something unique. No view is "better" than any other. They're just different. When I've looked at the diamond from every possible angle I will know its beauty in all possible forms.

    This idea that "deeper is better" seems to me to be another mind-trick of living in this common world of relativity where things are all organized according to what is good, bad, better, best, and so on. That relative way of looking at everything is a part of what meditation helps us transcend. In the end there isn't "good" meditation and "better" meditation; there are just unique meditative experiences and none are any more or less desirable than any of the others.

    I go back now and use all of the LF tracks I've been through so far on a regular basis so that I continuously get to view the diamond of meditation from as many angles as possible. LF-5 is not better than LF-7 but it is different and does give me a little different perspective on my meditative experience. What that difference is I cannot tell you exactly because it isn't something words can express. It's something you need to seek out and experience for yourself.

    My experience with Holosync is very limited. I think the claim that LF is more effective than Holosync probably just means it is more effective at training your brainwaves to reach desired frequencies more efficiently. Like I said, my experience with Holosync is extremely small but as much as I have I'd have to say LF has been more effective for me. Besides, I have a deep mistrust of any product that claims it can work magic for me without my having to make any effort. The saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is," comes to mind.

    Even if LF is more effective at getting you into certain brainwave states it's still you that is responsible for channeling those brainwaves into the desired activity, like meditation. There's no such thing as a free lunch despite what others would have you believe.
     
  7. Papp

    Papp Member

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    ^^^ that is a fantastic reply by Ta-tsu-wa.
     
  8. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

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    Amazing thread

    Lucid, clear as light through a diamond.

    Ta-tsu-wa and Edwin you have really given us LF newbies some good stuff here. :):):)


    jim
     
  9. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    I agree 110% with what Edwin wrote. The only magic bullet in meditation is meditation itself. Everything else including LF is just an enhancement to the meditation process.

    Pan, you asked if meditation was the only thing the LF tracks are good for. I think if you match up the brainwave state a LF track is supposed to help you reach with the brainwave state required by a particular activity the tracks could assist you in an endless variety of things. But the key would always be that you have to be making the effort yourself.

    I find some of the tracks to be excellent for just relaxing and reading a book at the end of the day. They create a calm, quiet atmosphere that is conducive to focusing on my chosen reading material and I think I get more out of my reading time when I use a LF track. But it would be ridiculous of me to put on one of those tracks then go flip on the TV to watch a ballgame and later on wonder why I didn't learn anything from my reading. Well, duh, I didn't learn anything because I wasn't reading, I was watching a ballgame.

    That's kind of what Edwin was saying I think. If you want to meditate, meditate. If you would like to gain the benefits of meditation quicker, meditate while listening to LF tracks. But if you are not meditating it would be ridiculous to think you're going to get the benefits of meditation just because you're playing a LF track just as it would be ridiculous for me to think I'm going to get the benefit of reading just because LF is playing while I'm watching a ballgame.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  10. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Ta-Tsu-Wa, you hit it spot on !

    That's exactly what I mean :)
     
  11. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Wow, thanks Edwin and Ta-tsu-wa for your replies.

    Now that makes sense to me. I never thought that Lifeflow doesnt fullfill my needs, i just wondered what its all about. In the 2 weeks im using it, things happend which normaly happen in 2-3 years for me.

    Someone should make this posts sticky :)

    Pan
     
  12. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Glad that we could help !

    There is always the danger of people overglorificating a product, making it into something it isn't.
    The things LifeFlow CAN do are special enough.

    Some people enjoy listening to LF while doing chores, and that is an excellent way to improve your life, because doing those otherwise dull jobs can be turned into a Vipassana meditation. I will look for a link for you guys, it is somewhere in this forum, a free Vipassana meditation book.

    And of course LF 7 is good to listen at all day in an environment that has a lot of energetic fields like electromagnetism and such, having to do with the Schumann resonance.
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    And found it allready:

    Mindfullness in plain English, originally brought to our attention by Goodoljoshua, who's birthday it is today ( Happy birthday Josh :) )

    Here is the link:

    Mindfulness In Plain English
     
  14. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Thanks for the link Edwin, im gonna take a look at this.

    Does this mean in the end it doesnt matter which Lifeflow track someone begins with?
    Or does the brain needs this "adapting" to handle the "not-deeper-but-deeper" level 9-1?

    Confused as always,
    Pan
     
  15. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    Think of growing in meditation as if you were setting a goal to earn a degree in mathematics.

    You first have to learn the numbers and then learn how to count them in the correct order. Then you learn simple addition and subtraction. Then you learn multiplication and division including the old borrowing and carrying if you learned the way I did. Then you can delve into decimals, fractions and so forth.

    You don't pause at each new step and say, "Ah, now I'm going to learn REAL mathematics!" It's all mathematics. None of these steps is "more mathematical" than any of the others.

    But just as you cannot eat an elephant all in one bite, neither can you learn all of mathematics at one time. Some concepts cannot be grasped if you do not already possess the knowledge of certain other concepts. For example, borrowing and carrying involves the use of addition and subtraction. So you could not effectively learn how to borrow and carry unless you had first mastered the skills of addition and subtraction.

    Meditation is no different. Some states of consciousness are natural, yet are not common. States like the alpha levels we go in and out of regularly throughout our day and so entering them in meditation feels somewhat more "familiar" than entering a waking state of theta might feel. Because we already have a good deal of experience with alpha it is relatively easy to begin working our meditations towards the alpha levels.

    We all know what it feels like to suddenly find ourselves aware that we were lost in a daydream. That was an alpha state. So in the beginning of learning meditation if I tell you that you're going to experience an alpha meditative state you have at least an idea what that experience might be like. But if I said to you, "Alright, Newbie, we're going to start you off right from the beginning learning to meditate at a delta level," you would have no idea at all how that might feel or what to expect. Your chances of successfully entering delta while still awake and then staying there would be greatly reduced.

    Instead we start off from something that is a little bit familiar and we build on that foundation. We take the next small step and work at it until it begins to feel familiar as well, then we take another step, then another and another and so on. As each new step becomes familiar and comfortable it becomes a secure foundation upon which to take that next step.

    In any case, what would be the great attraction to jumping ahead to the lower brain frequency tracks? If you believe what's been discussed so far in this thread, and you understand that the next level is not "better" and that there isn't some great, mystical prize waiting if only you could just get to that last level, and you understand that each step is equally interesting, equally unique and equally valuable, then there really isn't much incentive to want to jump to the lower levels before the proper time. If you do it won't bring satisfactory results anyway, just like you can't learn borrowing and carrying before you learn addition and subtraction. Doesn't it make more sense to just relax and enjoy the total process?
     
  16. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Wow, that is such a clear way of explaining the process. Thank you - I love it!! It's true, success is a journey, not a destination. Enjoy the peace and joy on your individual journeys :) :) :)
     
  17. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Seems like im asking too much questions,

    Nevermind
    Pan
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  18. Imed

    Imed Member

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  19. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

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    Second that

    Please let me second that Imed!!

    Tu-Tsu-wa and Edwin have "filled in the blanks" over and above our LF newbie expectations.

    From what I have understood we can not push our expectations or fears upon meditation.

    Pan, as all have said try to go with the flow (no pun intended)......:):):):)



    take care all

    jim
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  20. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    I thought about it. My questions was useless, but i dont see the true background why i asked it. Doesnt matter anyway, i guess.

    @seatrend: Words are just what you make out of them. Your interpretation :)

    Pan
     

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