Discussion in 'Thought For Today' started by olmate, Feb 24, 2014.
The ego imagines individual enlightenment but there is one enlightenment in which we participate.
One day they'll get around to upgrading this forum so we can *like* posts...
I have another point of view: there is no enlightement.
Do you mean that true understanding is not possible?
From my perspective, the thing we call enlightenment is the essence of what we are. Its just that the human brain puts a mental layer between our essence and our conciousness.
Yup, from this perspective true understanding is not possible. Because logical thinking is part of the brain, and as long as we stay there, there cant be "enlightenment".
Thats why we meditate, i guess. To let go of this mental layer... coming out of meditation and having experienced the essence of what we are, the brain instantly converts it to a sort of "understanding" and thinks it knows whats going on. Still its just an interpretation and never the real deal itself.
So, there is no enlightenment for me... only the absence of interpretation through the brain. I havent figured out yet how to permanently get rid of it, besides dying.
I agree we can get caught up in theoretical debates about words or concepts.
I understand what you mean by the incessant "thinking" aspects.
One of the things I have been experimenting with in an experiential sense is leaning into "being".
I have been fascinated with our universe - its immensity, the stars and galaxies and my seemingly tiny place in it. I walk out into the night and just look up at all of the lights and the darkness. At times through the day I just look out into the blue and peer as hard as I can into infinity.
All of this stuff going on at eye level or inside my head dissolves. All of the trivia, the drama, the stories - all evaporate.
The silence and stillness of the meditation practice is important. But increasingly for me, so is taking that practice out of the sitting position into a much, much, much bigger space.
When I was younger, I used to think that we were trapped in our three dimensions - like it was some small space and was incredibly limiting. I am not so sure any more. The space that has grown through daily practice, increased awareness of our universe and our fundamental connection and unity with it has me in a much different place these days.
So, reference to enlightenment for me is much more about the daily path than a concept or goal these days - a practice, a way, a being. So I guess in that sense, it is a convenient label for me to describe the daily, moment by moment existence and path to understanding.
Oh yes, indeed. The meditation practice is just a part of Being. It helps us to become more 'in tune' with just Being in our daily lives, so that when we're not meditating, our awareness is more prominent, rather than the discursive mind. And then the mind becomes a tool to be used, rather than the false belief that it is really us, where we let it control us.
Being out in quiet open spaces; looking at the clouds in the sky or the stars in the night sky, are all a kind of meditation that allows us to get more in touch with our Awareness of Being too.
Have you read "Flatland"? (Flatland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
If you haven't try and get a copy of the book as close to the original as possible (some people have tried to re-adapt it, but it's not as good, and the recent films don't do the original book justice).
It's not a big book, but it's a great description about our perception of dimensions.
As for Enlightenment... yes we could discuss our whole lifetimes what it really means... but it's not something that can be put in words, it's something to just Be, though most aren't aware of Being, simply because they cover it up with 'other' things.
But yes, I agree we can use the term in reference to our path towards greater Awareness or just Being.
I haven't read the book but have heard the "dimensional" story told by a few people like Carl Sagan. I will see if i can find a copy. Thanks.
Well, anything that happens as a result of the brain (which is nearly everything in this world), i dont take too serious. And with that i mean also my own thoughts and things happening in my life. Its all a big illusion and the picture created within our brain is a greatly blurred perception. Therefore all i can do is just watch it all happen. Cant wait to leave this body to be the "real me" again... this feeling and/or perception guides me my whole life. Its like i always knew im a fake. The result is massive frustration feelings created by my brain... another thing to observe.
Lol what makes you think that something after death will be better?
Well thats a very subjective feeling. Its like a memory of how it felt before. I always had this contrast of the little personality, and the ones we are without a body/brain filter... even if i cant say exactly what i mean with that. I just know that my perspective here isnt meant to know something or see everything in the right way... its just way too tiny to be able to. All i can do, is to learn to let go (of wanting something). I think thats the main problem of humans... they think they are in charge and need to control things, while something much bigger is controling "everything". We just have and get into a lot of trouble with that.Because its way too much for our little human experience, to be in charge... i believe it was never meant like that.
I am inclined to agree with your description. I know when my Dad passed away and I sat quietly beside him, I had an overwhelming sense he was communicating with me - basically saying that everything was OK - but not communicating in anyway that I have experienced. Mmmmm maybe a "reverse prayer" might be some way of trying to describe it with words.
I also agree with the control aspect. In one sense the "letting go of attachment" teachings of various belief systems points at that issue in my view. Is this an idealist view? I feel through personal practice in respect to little things - like anger about someone's behaviour, lusting after material things, dealing with pain and dealing with personal fear that it is in fact possible. Sustaining that beyond isolated incidents is my personal challenge - which in essence is mostly about being present in the moment.
I guess that is one reason I find the view from space so compelling. Just today I was sitting on a beach looking at the blue sky. The realization of our planet flying through the enormity of space is quite humbling - for me anyway. It very much put all of the activity on the planet surface into perspective. But maybe that is just me.
I think i know that feeling you had with your dad. Its like a inner reassurance that all is ok... i sometimes have that, when things go really bad.
That feeling of knowing your place in relation to the big thing, thats something im rather missing... i guess thats a good thing.
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