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Do any of you see things?

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Thinker, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Thinker

    Thinker Member

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    At my meditation session last week, someone said that, when he stared intently at the floor, he could see faces. The session leader, who is not a master but is qualified to lead simple classes, said everyone sees that - sometimes, they see faces of angels and/or demons, other times, they see little things moving on the floor.

    I noticed that too. I seem to see the ceiling moving, like a slow-moving mud flow as part of the mud bank moves faster than the rest, or, sometimes, I see things moving in the carpet. I thought this was just my poor eyesight (I have VERY poor eyesight), but, now, other people have said the same thing.

    Can someone tell me what this is about?
     
  2. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Hi Thinker,

    I guess it depends on your beliefs and own understanding of these things.

    You say the session leader is not a master, but a master of what do you refer? Are we not all masters and all teachers to each other?

    Some people do see spirits, guides, faces in the "furniture" or whatever, and these things will mean different things to different people. It is not for one person to tell another what this means, but for the individual to understand from their own beliefs what these things are and how they relate to their own minds thoughts.

    It is my own understanding that these are things of our own creation.

    So, the question is... what do these things mean to you? Are they comforting? Are they fearful? What do you want to do with them?

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  3. Thinker

    Thinker Member

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    He's not a Zen master, so he only has permission to lead basic meditation exercises - don't ask me what that means.

    But I need to have some context of what I'm seeing. Are those figments of my imagination or what?
     
  4. CharlieBrown

    CharlieBrown Member

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    Highely likely, I guess... Probably your subconscious, telling you / trying to tell you something.
     
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    And maybe not even that. I sometimes see vivid images of streets I do not know, and the picture in my mind are so clear that I can count the rooftiles ( or so it seems perhaps ). Pretty, but nothing more.

    Treat them as you would treat any other thing that arises in your mind:
    Allow it to come, allow it to go away again. There is nothing you have to "do" with it. Just allow it to be and allow it to go away again.

    You are there to meditate. Mind will have a whole lot of tricks up it's sleave to make you notice things that you thought weren't there before, only to move your attention away from meditation. By simply allowing everything to come and go, you will not get attached to the image/thought/emotion, and you will meditate in a pleasant way.

    Meditate every day ! :)
     
  6. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    It means that he subscribes to a belief system or organisation that defines hierarchy for the purpose of ego/control.

    We can all teach people to the level that we are at ourselves. To have restrictions placed on someone to say they can only teach up to a "basic" level, until they reach some sort of hierarchical label, is not truth. Why should person A have the right to tell person B what they can share with other people?

    e.g. (simplified example)...
    I know all the letters of the alphabet. Can I not teach someone else all the letters of the alphabet? Or do I need to be "qualified" as an English teacher before I can do that?

    ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  7. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

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    Hi Thinker,
    Correct me if I am wrong but is it not unsual for basic meditation to be taught with the eyes open. Closing the eyes allows a natural progression of alpha waves but the main purpose is to assist a reduction in distractions.


    To transfix ones gaze for an extended period of time would stress the optic nerves. Forcing a fixed focal view point I would think perhaps would cause the brain to "playback past visual chatter" that we would then "see" due to the stress that is being placed on this highly complex system being the brain/optic nerve connection.

    just my 3 farthings



    shine on :) :)

    jim
     
  8. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Just think about how our eyes work... every few ms, when we change our fixed point of view, we are blind - we just dont know anything about it (until we read it :) ). When we stare at something, our little eye "rods" (dont know how they are called in english) get tired and dont send any signals anymore to the brain, so the sight may partically fade away into the color of the background.

    Our reflection of light is nothing static, so its no wonder that you see wired things when staring long enough on something.

    I cant describe it better in english, but theres plenty of arcticles on how our eyes work :)

    Pan
     
  9. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    The eyes are made of Rods and Cones in English. If I recall correctly, the cones detects colour frequencies and the rods are just light sensitive (rods being used more when we are looking in the darkness, whereas cones used more in daylight).

    ;)
     
  10. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Jim, in Zen it is indeed quite common to meditate with the eyes open. Not wide open, but semi-open, up to a point where view gets a bit hazy. They usually look at a blank wall, without any distractions. Scientific research has shown that a relaxed gaze without focus actually induces deeper meditative states.

    You can trust the Japanese to be throrough in their research ;)
     
  11. Franz

    Franz Member

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    Hello Thinker. No need to worry. I also experience this from time to time. My bed sheets start to move like calm waves in the ocean after I complete my meditation. Everything seems more alive for some reason. Even the walls look they're moving. I don't know what it is. I have experienced this since I started meditating so I'm used to it. It happens temporarily for about 5 minutes after I complete my meditation.
     
  12. Thinker

    Thinker Member

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    Thank you, everyone - your thoughts have helped me think. :)

    But I'm really wondering ... is this my mind, or am I seeing a different reality? As I write this, I'm thinking of the movie, "Interview with a Vampire". After the narrator became a vampire, he began to see other things, like a statue moving and so on, and he realized that he was part of a more complex reality. So I'm wondering if this is happening to me, or if it's my subconcious working itself out.
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I think chances that you are turning into a vampire are about 0.0001, but that's just because I am an optimist :D


    You are free to believe whatever you want dear Thinker, don't let me stop your vivid imagination. We actually are part of a more complex reality, so you got that one right. But I have no clue if this is noticable through the symptoms you described.
     
  14. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Ahh yes, thanks :)

    LOLMAO
     
  15. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    Scientifically speaking, the brain is a pattern-matching engine. Faces are very important to us, so we have a lot of hardware and software dedicated to recognizing them and reading them. In this way, a pattern similar to a face will be interpreted as a face by a part of the brain, while the rest of the brain looks at in surprise.

    Spiritually speaking, however, there are many worlds that can be visited by the mind but not the body. The body is actually a stabilizing influence, so we cannot easily manifest the things of our mind. Otherwise our waking life would be much like our dreams.
     
  16. seatrend8899

    seatrend8899 Member

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    Zen eyes..........

    :cool::cool:Hi Edwin,


    Yes the "hazy view" makes sense as the optic nerve can relax and the blank wall also allows the optic nerve to relax. Interesting stuff :) :) , thanks for the Zen info Edwin!



    shine on :) :)


    jim
     
  17. Thinker

    Thinker Member

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    So, bottom line, what's happening? Is this my mind playing tricks on me? If so, then is meditation really helping?

    Or am I actually seeing some different version of reality? If so, what am I seeing?
     
  18. CharlieBrown

    CharlieBrown Member

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    Thinker - to be honest - I do not think anyone can answer that question for you - nobody is in your mind, people can share their experiences, but I don't think someone can tell you, with any degree of certainty, what's going on in your mind, specially not even knowing you...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  19. Itlandm

    Itlandm Member

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    Bottom line, you should not let the faces distract you. They cannot help you or harm you. You may or may not make use of this ability at a much later stage, but for now just note that it comes from your mind and let it rest at that.

    The mind is playing tricks on us all, and usually in much more subtle ways than this. This is why we must learn to see through it. Meditation will help with that.
     
  20. Ta-tsu-wa

    Ta-tsu-wa Member

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    Michael wrote about having odd experiences in one of his news letters. Luckily, Pollyanna reproduced the text of that here in the forum, and the whole article can be read here:

    http://www.project-meditation.org/c...ox/1343-r-these-symptoms-normal.html#post6715

    The part of the article most relevant to the question at hand had this to say:

    Doubtless this is the reason most of the ancient texts dealing with meditation, and most reputable teachers of meditation, advise disregarding these kinds of things. They really add nothing to the practice of meditation and if much attention is paid to them they tend to lead one away from the real benefits to be had.
     

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