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Complete Surrender.

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by filly33, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    I haven't been on this forum in a while. When I started meeting all the people on this forum it was nice. I had met very few people who were just altogether caring and nice people. Here I learned about Eckhart Tolle and soon I was obsessing over his work - videos, The Power Of Now, A New Earth - and I got lost in all the words and especially the realization of not only my ego, but everyone elses. Excuse my language, but it really f****d with my mind.

    Over the last few months I've slipped deeper and deeper into misery because I saw the ego not only in everyone else, but in myself too, and I hated it. I mean, I loathed it. And the worst part is, I haven't been able to shake it. Lately I've just been sitting on my couch being lazy. For some reason, the world is starting to open up with my acceptance of my ego. That's a very weird thing because I've spent so much time trying to ignore and deplete my ego.

    Recently I've had some great genuine moments with both my parents and my brother, and they have really helped. I finally, after months of looking, got a job, so the money is coming in instead of going out. I also found this show called Californication that, in a weird way, not like any other show, has been totally inspiring. I haven't wanted to be like the main character, like I find myself constantly doing with other shows, but instead I'm seeing deeper things like love and passion.

    I felt like sharing this because I wanted to say this. The world opens up in complete surrender (I still haven't done it myself, but I see this now).

    Mitch
     
  2. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I totally get what you are saying.

    I have been battling the same thing.
    Tolle told us to let go of the ego, and I interpreted that as " the ego is bad ".

    Every time the ego "showed it's ugly face" I hated myself for it. I tried to fight it, move beyond it through willpower.

    Made me feel miserable like you.

    Now I am slowly coming to terms with it, accepting and forgiving myself for having an ego and a painbody.
    Now that I have stopped battling it, and replace the feeling with a much more gentle forgiveness, I still haven't reached "enlightenment" but I sure do feel a heck of a lot better.

    Does that count ?
     
  3. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    Sure does. It's made me feel much better too. Like the weight of the sky has finally lifted itself and I've joined with the clouds.

    Thanks for the reply. I know it was just a rant and I didn't really expect many people to reply.
     
  4. Montana Keith

    Montana Keith Member

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    Hi Mitch,
    It's good to hear from you again. I always enjoy reading your posts. Your comments on "surrender" remind me of similar words Chris posted on my "Another Meditation Success Story" thread at about the same time you did.

    Life sure is a hoot. At times, I find myself really getting involved with the "drama" of the ego. I am grateful for the opportunity meditation gives me to have "space"--actually to realize I am the space--the "guesthouse"--where all these emotional guest make their appearances.

    I wish you well this day. --Keith :)
     
  5. Jeb

    Jeb Member

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    Hey Mitch - glad to see you here again! As I have said before on this forum, I have a hard time with Tolle. It seems that he says the same things again and again. I don't think that we can ever let go of ego - we just need to train it to be less intrusive when we deal with others and with the external world. As we train the ego, we tune in more and more to the universal conciousness and can more easily commune with others. If you are a reader, read Being Peace by Thich Nhat Hanh. (Google him). I find that his stuff is calmer and more easily ingested. Maybe I am too much into my own ego to realize the depth of Tolle, but I find that I walk away from his stuff more confused and depressed. To each his own, I guess - but, wait, is that my ego speaking? ;)
     
  6. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    Eckhart Tolle says the right things. The problem is that he reveals how horrifying the ego is, and he explores acceptance of situations that your find yourself in, but never explores the acceptance of ego (or maybe he did, but he still made it into an enemy). His teachings got all mashed together and were constantly swirling through my head, yet he teaches of no thought being the place you want to be, so I was in pain because I couldn't stop thinking about his teachings. I personally for this reason started despising the ego in me, so I never moved forward. I saw how horrible it was and wanted it to be gone. Recently I watched another video and I realized that if the ego is there, and you say something to your self that is judgmental or hurtful, then accept it and move on. I mean, its just one opinion of the situation. Now that I've done that, things have been looking up. I've started writing again, which is nice. I think everyone should heed this advice. Accept everything. Don't condemn yourself.

    Mitch
     
  7. shesgg

    shesgg Member

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    Tolle's message is about where you are moving on to. Without coming to the present, your ego is there at the moment but in a prominent position. A dominate position.

    When you come to the now, you begin to leave behind the painbody automatically almost.

    Don't forget to see yourself from the inside out, do this as many times as you think about it during the day. Also, when I am doing anything, I ask the Tolle questions about whether I am just accepting what I have to do, really enjoying it or doing it very enthusiastically. Asking yourself these things will bring you to the present.

    Work from the positive side of this and the ego will go dormant.

    I don't mean to intrude on your methods of getting the ego behind you rather offering my methods to see whether they can be of help.

    Congratulations on the job!
     
  8. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    Everything helps. Thanks.

    Mitch
     
  9. bashmaki

    bashmaki Member

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    Mitch,
    Good to see you back. Yah' the old ego is still with us. There comes a time when we can be thankful for the ego. It is what brought us down the road thus far without complete destruction. In many ways the ego is a safety mechanism designed to place importance on the "I" so when something bad happens we "think" we need to protect the "I" from the danger. Hey, that's a good thing, no?!
    From the standpoint of raising children it is easier to see where the ego has a place in the developement of each of us as well as humanity as a whole organism.

    I have a son that is 15; his ego is still in the development stage. He wrestles at the high school he goes to and, like so many boys his age, he is developing physically as well as mentally. Along with this is ego development.

    Invariably about every 2nd week or so he takes a run at the "old man" with his wrestling moves. Being a practicing martial artist, a yogi and in pretty good shape for my age, I really don't mind these altercations. I out weigh him by about 50 lbs. but dad seems to be the guy you gotta beat soooooo . . . . we wrestle around on the floor, outside, in the barn; wherever he decides to take a run at me. Invariably he always wins because he is so serious and I start laughing so hard I cannot fight anymore. I never give up without making him sweat hard enough to know he accomplished something. If I thought I had to beat him I would end up hurting him and I'm just not going to go there. Besides here we have two men, one trying to leave the ego behind and the other developing his ego so he too can leave it behind someday.

    In any event, before he can leave his ego behind, it must be healthy enough to go it's own way. So he wins . . . every time.

    gus
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  10. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    Thank you, Gus. One of the most inspiring and amazing stories I've heard in a long time.

    Mitch
     
  11. Jeb

    Jeb Member

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    Great experience you have shared, Gus. When my boys were the age of your son I got into "pissing matches" with them, and wasn't smart enough to let them win once in a while. After all, I thought, they were my trees they were peeing on. In retrospect, I see that it made no difference. I wish I had had your wisdom back then! Maybe we need a "Parenting" thread here to help each other with kid raising problems!
     
  12. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    Wisdom and Love

    Mitch, Gus, Edwin, Keith, and all of you, this is such a great thread about ego. Lately I've had a big reminder that awareness of ego is best when balanced by love, and Gus, your story about you and your son wrestling is such a great example. We have to have ego. Otherwise how would we have boundaries or accomplish anything in life? But ideally ego should be in the service of Love and compassion.

    My spiritual teacher, Amma (Amma.org) said recently that Love and spiritual Wisdom are like two wings of a bird. With only one wing, a bird can't fly but with two, s/he can soar! Can we choose to see the good/God in everyone and everything? Be kind to ourselves when we stumble and be compassionate to others when they screw up? :rolleyes:
    I'm hoping so for our children's sake!

    Wishing for peace on earth :)

    Bhavya
     
  13. Montana Keith

    Montana Keith Member

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    Thank You

    Hi Bhavya, Mitch, Gus, Edwin, Chris, Coenrad, Pollyanna (& the many other friends I'm meeting on this forum),


    Thank you each for taking time to post here. What you are choosing to share continues to bless my life.

    Well, here are some of my latest experiences.

    Sunday, December 7, 2008: Once a month my friend Geoff and I meet by telephone for our “partnership focusing.” (Partnership Info) Geoff lives in Arkansas; I live in Utah. We each take turns for about 30 minutes providing presence as the one focusing journeys inward as they choose. This morning we met.

    Following are some of my experiences while I focused with Geoff:

    These are three of the limiting beliefs that I formed while growing up. At the time, I did not realize that I had an option in what I chose to believe.

    Limiting Belief #1: Males are superior to females. God only grants authority to act in his name—his priesthood—to males and only to certain males who meet certain criteria.

    Limiting Belief #2: The Black race is inferior.

    Limiting Belief #3: “Some thing” outside myself knows what's best for me. I do not even know what I feel or how I should feel. This outside “some thing”--whether a parent or a teacher or a religious institution—does know. This belief reaches it's pinnacle in the belief that God is this ultimate outside “some thing.”

    Over the last several years I have been experiencing a shift in perspective when it comes to the above three beliefs. Particularly in reference to “limiting belief #1,” the following are some significant milestones in this shift.

    --Milestone #1: About three years I go, I discovered a book by Stewart Edward White entitled “The Betty Book.” (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301111.txt ) This book written by a man is the story of his wife Betty's development as a psychic in consciousness. In addition to “The Betty Book,” Mr. White with the assistance of his wife and others wrote several other books in this “Betty” series on books.

    --Across the Unknown (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks05/0500091.txt)
    --The Unobstructed Universe (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301131.txt)
    --The Road I Know(http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301081.txt)
    --The Stars Are Still There (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301091.txt)
    --With Folded Wings (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301201.txt)

    --Milestone #2: A little over a month ago, one of my Project Meditation Forum friends—Coenrad from South Africa—mentioned a female Christian mystic, Grace Cooke—whose writings I might be interested in.

    Similar to the above Betty White, Grace was a psychic who received and shared valuable spiritual teachings. Her term for God of “Father Mother God” is resonating with me at this time. In the religious tradition in which I was raised God was a man who had a glorified male body. All prayers were to be addressed to “Heavenly Father” and only to him. And while the mythology of my religious tradition left open the possibility that there were also “Heavenly Mothers,” prayers were never to me addressed to these female deities. Prayers were only to be addressed to “Heavenly Father.” In essence, He was the one who would get our words to the divine feminine if, and only if, he felt she needed to hear.

    --Milestone #3: Early this morning around 0400 AM, I awoke. I turned on my iPod Touch and went to the Project Meditation Forum. In reading the posts there, I read my dear friend Bhavya post that her spiritual teacher is Amma. Following the link she put in her post, I went to Amma's website. Amma is a living deity. Her name in Hindu means Mother. She is known for her loving motherly hugs which people line up in the thousands to receive.

    After expressing these three “limiting beliefs” and these three perceptions shifting “milestones,” the following “mental vision” came to me as I was focusing with my friend Geoff.

    It kind of feels like I'm a young boy on an old and slightly beat up bicycle that I'm just learning to ride. The training wheels have been removed, and I'm starting out on my own. I'm pretty wobbly and uncertain right now. I'm moving forward really slowly and swerving back and forth as I move ahead. “Logically,” my mind is telling me that this is impossible—that there is no way that this “unstable” bike should even be standing. If I listen to this “logical fear,” I slow down even more, and sure enough, the bike falls over and I crash to the ground. In fear, I stand with my legs straddling my bike and my feet firmly on the ground—stuck and unwilling to move ahead. But not now. Now in this moment, I'm moving forward determinedly with a good number of wobbly back and forth swerves. At first, I believe I'm all alone. I believe that it is all up to me to keep this “dang” bike upright and to continue to forge ahead. And then for some reason, I become aware that I'm not alone—that I've never been alone. To both sides I start to notice “spiritual guides and friends” who are running along beside me—who are ever present and ready to offer a “steadying hand” if I start to fall. My vision continues to expand. I start to notice that I'm surrounded by a whole flow of humanity moving forward. Some are on bikes like mine with the training wheels off for the first time. Others are still on tricycles and bicycles with training wheels still on. Some people are on roller skates and roller blades. It is like a grand celebration—like an old fashioned Fourth of July Parade. And then wonder of wonders, I sense riders on thin tired English racing bikes whizzing along with me to either side. And then all of us riders and all of our various riding conveyances start to dematerialize into “sparkles of light”--sparkles of light that are a rainbow of glorious colors that are all flowing together as a beautiful stream of Life of Light of Love.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2008
  14. Jeb

    Jeb Member

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    Re: Limiting Belief #2

    Keith- thanks for sharing. I also grew up with Limiting belief #2. I lived in an all-white suburb of Chicago for the first 17 years of my life. I spent the next ten years aboard a submarine in the US Navy - also a place where I had very little contact with black people. When I finally settled down, it was/is in a small town in Southwest Michigan, right across the river from another small town that is predominantly Black. Many of my clients are Black. I have had a Black legal assistant for the past two years.

    What I have found out is that it is difficult to acclimate myself to the cultural differences between races. It was relatively easy for me to move from the "they all look alike" mentality to seeing/appreciating the differences between individuals. What was and still is to some extent most difficult for me is to accomodate and appreciate the differences between beliefs in my culture and those of the African-American community. Some of the differences are in the use of the language. That difference was especially hard for me to accomodate because my profession requires the use of what White America considers well structured English. Also, the African-American community is much more matriarchal that the White community. As a result, dealing with Black women is much different that dealing with White women.

    I admit to still struggling with these issues. I have made many dear friends in the Black community, but my biases (prejudices?) still haunt me when I least expect it. I find it is much easier to avoid trying to understand the differences in culture than it is to confront them and accomodate those differences into my thinking.

    When you get right down to it, all people are not the same. But all people are precious and worthy. I know this in my heart. But I'm 65 and still working on this one.
     
  15. HenrikSH

    HenrikSH Member

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    Really glad to have found this thread, it truly does feel like more than a "coincidence".

    I can relate to this issue 100%. I've been doing the exact same thing: Replacing destructive, non-aware ego with just as destructive egoical awareness of ego and becoming miserable about it. Remember Tolle's words: You CANNOT solve the problem of the ego by thinking because thinking ITSELF is the problem.

    So, you have to ask yourself whom is doing the thinking even when trying to to "just be" and observe the thinker. Like Tolle explained, you need to be careful not to let the ego back in through the back door which is precisely what you and me have been doing. In my opinion, Tolle's "observe the observer" suggestion is wise but can in fact be harmful if overdone (much like I believe is the case with LoA). I really wish Tolle had pointed this out more as this is an obvious trap everybody's bound to fall in.

    Presumably, you are over-comtemplating things - like me. These latest days around Christmas I've begun to realize just what a complete kind of accept Tolle is suggesting. Like already pointed out, this includes having to accept the fact you and everybody else are still with an ego, as well.
     
  16. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    Hi Henrik
    I'm really curious about what you mean when you say that observing the observer can be harmful if overdone. Could you elaborate?
    Thanks
    Bhavya :)
     
  17. Grey

    Grey Member

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    i think what is meant is that it can become an endlessly recursive loop. if i observe the observer, who is it that is observing the observer? and if i observe the one who is observing the observer, who is it that is observing the one that is observing the observer? it can always be taken back one level further and if you fail to ask who it is that is observing at any level you could become unconscious at that level and slip back into the mindset of not being aware. eventually you have to get beyond all observation and all observers to reach a logically consistent conclusion.
     
  18. bashmaki

    bashmaki Member

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    One thing I realized long ago; if things are seemingly complicated and difficult, look for a place ego has entered the picture. Ego loves to complicate simple processes. I think remebering who we are is relatively simple. The hard part seems to be remembering to remember. I can always tell when I am in awareness and mindful of what I am. As soon as I do it's gone! ;)

    gus
     
  19. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I notice with myself that I have a tendency to over-complicate things.
    Here, I is the ego.

    The catch is to confuse thinking with awareness it seems:
    At a certain point I notice the ego and/or painbody at work, but when the awareness steps in, like Gus said, I start to think: "that is just my ego talking, that is bad ( notice the judgement being the tell tale sign that this is still ego talking ) I have to stop thinking that way ".

    The crazy loop here is that by thinking that the ego is bad and needs to stop, you are actually feeding it again through your painbody, because the ego makes you feel guilty by using it :confused: If I have trouble explaining it, it must be even more difficult to grasp for an unconcious mind.

    There is a simple trick that everybody here masters.
    Meditation !

    Instead of starting to think when you notice your painbody or ego at work, try your normal meditation routine for a short time. You don't even need to close your eyes for it, simply do the mantra, or count the breath, or just breathe, for 3 or 4 times. You will instantly feel calmer, and while keeping the focus on your meditation, watch your painbody or ego.
    If you can't "find" or "see" the ego, congratulations, you have succeeded :) it is allready gone !
     
  20. chris063

    chris063 Member

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    Thanks Edwin, I like the idea of repeating a mantra when things start going a little awry. It gives a runaway mind something a bit more constructive to chew on :)
     

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