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can any one help please!!

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by trevordavies, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. trevordavies

    trevordavies Member

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    :confused:I have been using the meditation discs ten and twenty minutes once or sometimes twice a day for about two months now and have oocasionally missed a day or even two and have not yet had any results eg actually been able to acheive a state of meditaion.
    i have tried very hard not to allow things to enter my mind whilst practicing and cocentrate on my mantra although sometimes it is very difficult not to and i do push them aside and carry on as michael explains. i did download life flow 10 and have tried that with no success.i am wondering if i could have missed a cd after 123and4 ?as i have seen words mentioned on the threads section that i have never heard of before such as chakras !
    or could it be that it takes a longer time to master the techniques of meditation .i read the threads and am so envious of people who achieve deep meditation and some of the experiences they are having .if you can possibly help me i would be eternally grateful!!
    thank you so much for taking the time to read this trevor.
     
  2. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi Trevor,
    this is not intended to sound like an interrogation but if you can answer a few questions I think I'll be able to help you.
    It sounds like you needed to use Discover meditation for at least twenty minutes twice a day. Did you ever carry on and do the gratitude exercise after meditation? How many times have you listened to LifeFlow 10 and for how long of a session? I think when people are speaking of Chakras they are actually doing Chakra meditation as well as LifeFlow. Unfortunately I can't help you with this. I have felt weird and wonderful sensations and benefitted in amazing ways with LifeFlow and believe you can to. One last question, what do you want to actually achieve with meditation? If you don't wish to answer the last question I understand. Don't mean to be too personal, I would just like to help. Happiness and joy to you :) :) :)
     
  3. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Hi Trevor !

    Sorry to hear you are having such trouble with meditation!

    First, to take away one of your concerns, Chakra meditation is not something covered by any of Michael's courses or CD's.
    It's just one of those things that pop up as many people join a community, everybody has different backgrounds in meditation. I think you better not concentrate on that yet, first let's get Michael's meditation working for you.

    Now that that is out of the way, reading your post I pick up quite some frustration, as of course you have been trying very hard to meditate correctly, and obviously it's not working for you.
    I think you are very brave and I applaud your persiverence to keep trying this for 2 months even tho it doesn't seem to work for you !

    I have not yet heard of anyone physically unable to meditate, so the problem must be something else.
    When re-reading your post, one of the first things I notice is this little patch of text:
    i have tried very hard not to allow things to enter my mind whilst practicing and cocentrate on my mantra although sometimes it is very difficult not to and i do push them aside and carry on as michael explains


    Could it be that you are trying too hard ? When I started meditating with Michael's meditation guide, I gave myself a really hard time every time my mind had wondered off. I thought it was a bad thing, and I became agitated, frustrated and angry every time that happened. I was messing up my own meditation this way !

    Needless to say these feelings didn't really help me get relaxed.

    On CD 4 Michael explains that there is no good or bad way to meditate when it comes to the mind wondering off.

    Try to remember this: If you find your mind has wondered off, don't beat yourself up or give yourself a hard time ! Obviously your mind wondered off to something that was of great importance at that time, and the fact that you gave it attention during meditation will only help your mind to give it a place where it can be stored.
    Maybe something profound happened in your life recently, that keeps popping back ?

    All this is a valuable part of meditation.

    All you have to do the moment you realise that you wondered off, is return to you mantra and mildly focus on that.

    Stay calm and relaxed while you do that, instead of annoyance over your wandering mind, feel proud that you noticed it, and be thankfull that this little daydream has been dealt with during meditation, never to return again unless you want it to !

    It seems like a contradiction that you have to relax and stay focussed , but it isn't when you stop forcing yourself, and just let it flow.

    Even those who have meditated all their life still have daydreams, and besides, it's not like they are having meditation-olympics !

    Now as far as the results are concerned, I think that if you keep trying it the way I just told you, and you have a feeling that at the end of the 30-40 minutes, you feel more relaxed than when you started, you are well on your way of getting the benefits from meditation.
    The more relaxed you feel, the better you will feel, that's a guarantee !

    please let us know if this has worked for you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2008
  4. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Oh, forgot to say, I think using LF(LifeFlow)-10 is not usefull yet until you feel meditation is working for you !

    Otherwise it would be like listening to LF-10 while still being active in everyday life, it fun to listen to but you get no real benefits from it unless your mind relaxes.
    Even tho LF-10 will help your brain to settle down, it is an aid to meditation, no more. Don't expect wonders from it by itself !

    I am looking forward to your reaction and sincerely hope it will soon work for you !!!
     
  5. Raven

    Raven Member

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    To use LifeFlow or not?

    You're right. No entrainment program, no matter how well constructed, will "do all the work for you". It's like having a great car that can take you anywhere you want to drive. No matter how well the car is designed, unless a driver actually gets in, starts it up, and drives it, that car isn't going to take you anyplace. Entrainment is a vehicle that enhances the meditation process, not a substitute for it.

    People are individuals and may respond differently to the same stimulus. I think you will find that for the vast majority of people, using LifeFlow while meditating will enhance and improve the quality of the experience, even if you are a novice to meditation. But the sure-fire litmus test is to try it both ways. Meditate a session or two without it, then meditate a few sessions with it and compare your own results. You'll know then from personal experience what works best for you at that point in your development.

    ~R~
     
  6. trevordavies

    trevordavies Member

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    hello edwin
    first of all may i take the opportunity to thank you for the in depth analysis that you have sent me in your reply to my problem of meditating unsuccessfully .it was so helpful that you have explained that i have not missed any cds. and that is reassuring enough for me carry on with the meditation knowing that i have not missed out on anything and your comments on my not going on to lf10 until i have been more successful will be heeded. again edwin thank you for taking the time and your assurances !!
    trevor.
     
  7. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Anytime Trevor !

    What I like about this community is that everybody wants to help one and other !

    I hope you will keep posting your results here, I will regularly check into this thread to make sure you will experiance the wonderfull benefits from meditation. If you promise me not to give up, I will promise you that I will help you until our goal is reached !

    Please report here as much as you can, daily if possible, and think about it, if you succeed we can use this thread to inspire so many people to give meditation a try ! So if you have been helped you can help others right back !
    I love how Karma works :)

    Now get started ! :D
     
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Great analogy ! We have to be carefull to not praise LF into heaven, it is wonderfull, but let's not make a religion out of it :)
     
  9. Ras

    Ras Member

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    i mean no disrespect towards LF or michael, but you guys are absolutely correct... :)

    I have even gotten used to useing LF only one every two times i meditate, sometimes i even enjoy my none-LF meditation more!With that said... LF is awesome, and I sure notice a difference when useing it.

    Ok, back on topic! :
    trevordavies, I do kind of feel the same way as you. often (like..very often) i find my mind is wandering off. I just try to gently push it away and repeat my mantra again. If you find it very difficult to focus on your mantra you may want to consider trying to focus on your breath instead. The great thing about your breath is that it is always there! You dont really have to do anything special to make it apear, you just have to try and stay focused on it. This sometimes helps me stay more focused.

    I have not experinced any real deep meditative state either... The first time I did use life flow I did however feelt i went waaay deeper than normal (dont think i ever went that deep again...even with life flow).
    However, most of the time I am meditation I am simply sitting with my eyes close repeating the same word over and over again without achiveing enlightenment, or visions, of any kind ;)
     
  10. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    And that brings us back to what Pollyanna asked:

    What do you expect from meditation ?

    For me personally taking a break from hectic life, getting a good relaxation and thus sleeping better is my first goal.
    My second is to feel better in every day life, and I have to say I am getting there.

    No strange things for me so far, just like you. I do feel better now then when I didn't meditate, and that is like a small miracle in itself :)
     
  11. trevordavies

    trevordavies Member

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    hi pollyana. many thanks for your support
    i think that what i hoping ro acheive from meditation was quite similar to what edwin was looking for as i work in a very high pressure job and to be able to find a place to get away from the stress just for a short while. this along with the better health and hopefully feeling more at peace with life would help i am not looking for miracles just a little help in the turbulent world in which we live .
     
  12. trevordavies

    trevordavies Member

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    many thanks ras for your input!
    it sounds as though you are in the same boat as me?
    HOPEFULLY we may get enough feedback from fellow members to get us through this difficult period.the response so far is excellent and it kinda helps to restore our faith in fellow man this community is working well and i feel quite proud to be part of it!!!
     
  13. Michael Mackenzie

    Michael Mackenzie Owner

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    challenges

    When starting any traditional meditation technique it requires a little patience and practice Ras! How long have you been practicing the mantra technique? Have you been consistent?

    The Discover Meditation course is designed as an effective simple modern meditation technique and will get you some great results if you practice it exactly as you hear it on the CDs.

    My advice to most new members is to re-listen to the whole course a few times. You may well have missed a very important piece of information that is currently hampering your practice.

    Trevordavies:

    I think you have had some great advice. PLEASE just stick with your practice.

    I often felt like quitting when I first began meditating, like yourself, results did not come as I had expected. I expected to transcend out of my body and come back a new man. But I always did have a wild imagination :)

    I can't stress enough the importance of just making your daily practice a habit and working through it. You will see results if you stick to the course. Give it a little time though.

    Until you're achieving some positive results, the community is a great place to frequent to keep you motivated.

    I look forward to hearing about both of your meditation success. Michael :)
     
  14. Yakomo

    Yakomo Member

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    I just startet on this page but I am a Buddhist meditator for a longer time. You said you tried to push your thoughts away and I think this cant work. What I learned: if the thoughts wont stop analyze them. First each individual thought and then you will recognize very fast that all thoughts are the same so you just need to think of your solution. This sounds all very strange but what I mean is sth like:

    Thought: oh there is a car outside
    Solution: but what does it matter to me? the car would be there even if I would be dead so there is no need for me to worry about this car. At the moment the car is not connected to my life

    Thought: oh it hurts here and there
    Solution: but its just in this moment. From all my experiences I know that all my pain moved away after some time. So no need to worry about my pain cause it will move away as everything before without being concerned about it.

    I meditate often in a Buddhist monastery with lots of people around me. And they dont even think about being quiet. There are children playing around, women talk about cooking and so on. It took me some time to get into meditation for a first time but now I sit down and after 5-10 minutes I am in deep meditation.

    Meditation is not about making the world calm. Its about calming you down.

    Hope these thoughts may help you to get some success
    Let everything go
     
  15. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Talk about inspiration !

    I read about a guy once who claimed that meditation was not the way to enlightenment, solving all your problems was !
    Now I was not sure I agreed with him, but there seemed to be a certain truth in it for me... And reading your post Yakomo, it suddenly clicked: I should try to solve my problems DURING meditation !
    I always kind of relied on my subconcious to solve my problems, but giving it some active attention during meditation makes good sense to me !
     
  16. neilcamp

    neilcamp Member

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    Hello Trevor.
    I am a bit late in adding my tuppence worth here and I see that you have received some very good advice in the responses to your enquiry. I just want to add one thing. I always start my meditation with deep breathing in to the count of 8 (with my eyes closed), holding my breath for the count of 8 and then slowly breathing out. I repeat this three or four times until I feel a sense of readiness to start my meditation with LifeFlow. I don't cane myself when my mind wanders (and it often does), I just steer it back on course.
    It occurs to me from your post that you have a lot of anxiety about your meditation. This will hinder your progress. Stating with deep breathing may help with this anxiety.
    Happy meditating Trevor.
     
  17. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Excellent advice, Neil

    I'd like to offer a suggestion to build on what Neil said regarding breathing before meditation. Try using the old Pranayama technique of alternate nostril breathing before meditation. Using your thumb, plug your right nostril and inhale through your left. Then use your thumb to plug the left nostril and exhale out your right nostril. Leave the thumb where it is and inhale through the right, then plug the right and exhale out through the left. This constitutes one cycle of the breath. Try 3 to 5 complete cycles prior to meditation. There are no special breathing rules though I have found that deep, diaphragmatic breathing is more relaxing than shallower, upper lung breathing.

    The effect of alternate nostril breathing is that, much like entrainment itself, it fosters synchronization between the left and right hemispheres of the brain. I sometimes start my meditation with 3 cycles of this breath, and end it with another 3 cycles, but you can play around and find what works best for you. What you don't need to do, however, is try to breathe this way for 30 minutes or anything. It takes effect very quickly, so 3 to 5 cycles is all you need, usually taking only a minute or slightly more to complete.

    ~R~
     
  18. neilcamp

    neilcamp Member

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    I've never tried that way, Raven. Thanks! I shall give it a go. Being ready to 'receive' meditation is an important aspect to me. If I am all uptight and frustrated, I find that it not only takes me much longer to settle, but I often can't get into the meditation and feel disappointed afterwards.
     
  19. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Even I still have days where the meditation is not as deep and relaxing as I wanted it to be, don't worry, that's natural.

    On the days where I end my meditation and feel my mind has wondered so much that I didn't really relax, I tend to sit with my eyes closed a little longer than 2 minutes after I ended my meditation. I do some serious breathing, deep and slow, for at least 10 times or longer, or until I start feeling calmer.
    Then I end my meditation session, and simply think:

    I didn't feel as relaxed as I wanted to, but because I dealed with my issues today, they will be gone tomorrow, so tomorrow's meditation session is going to be great !

    disappointment or annoyance over your session will probably build on to the next day, and you will probably think something like " Yesterday's session was bad , I hope I won't have a bad session today "

    The human mind can't remember words like can't, won't, not, so it registers:
    " Yesterday's session was bad , I hope I have a bad session today "

    And then you will ! Law of attraction !

    Mother Theresa once said: " I will never march against war, but I will march for peace ! "

    How has your meditation been going the last couple of days, was any of our help usefull ?

    Please keep us informed on your sessions !
     
  20. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Great tip !

    Also "setting the mood" can help.

    I myself shut down any device in the room that emit's humming, like computers ( just not the fridge for obvious reasons :rolleyes: ) dvd players.
    Then I turn down the light or switch it off totally, and light some candles.
    I might even burn some incense or scented candle's, if you stick to one smell and use it every time you meditate, you will find your mind sets itself to relaxation as soon as you smell it, even before meditation. Smell is a very powerfull tool !

    Also I try to sit as comfortable as I can, I usually meditate for 30-40 minutes and I don't want to have to move because it hurts somewhere.

    I might not need to do all this, but the ritual itself makes me relax and I do it every time !
     

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