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Building Enthusiasm

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Michael David, May 10, 2011.

  1. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday, if you had total freedom, what would you feel? Maybe indescribable bliss? When all the illusion is gone, what is left, or what is God, Self, Spirit, Oneness… is that sadness?
    What is the nature of Eternal Oneness, of constant, eternal, infinite, total freedom, of constant, eternal, infinite, Omni potency? Or does God really have no nature, no experience, is Oneness so incapable, and if so, why bother with all that preoccupation with, meditating, stilling the mind, peeling back layers, reading Spiritual material, posting, creating, experiencing, etc, etc etc, etc? And who or what is actually preoccupied with it?
    If you truly needed, or required nothing, if you truly loved yourself unconditionally, and had the unlimited intelligence and ability to totally comprehend that, how would you feel? Full of bliss?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2011
  2. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    ...Feel...
    ...Bliss...
    ...Sadness...
    ...Love...

    all words relating to the senses/emotions/creations of mind and in my minds opinion, it would be none of them.

    If you can put it into words, it isn't it.

    Incapable of what? Capability comes from a comparison or judgement of what it takes to be capable and what is deemed to be incapable. Such judgement can only exist within a dualisic concept of the universe. So my judge in the first place? Why even assume or question whether Oneness is incapable? By doing so, you are placing Oneness in a box and making it dualistic, so it can't be real Oneness.

    If it had to be put in words, I would not relate it to any of the senses or emotions, but rather to a state, and that state being awareness. Not just a "I'm over here looking at that" type of awareness, but a state of being aware of being the whole

    If you're feeling it, you're not it. You cannot be that which you observe, but what you observe can be a part of the true You that is the Oneness. I guess this leads to/from the concept that consciousness is the creator of the universe as Amit Goswami describes in his book...

    Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World: Amazon.co.uk: Amit Goswami, Richard Reed, Maggie Goswami: Books

    As mentioned on one of Michael David's recent threads, we often spend time looking elsewhere for the 'englightenment', even when meditating or doing other 'spiritual' practices. We often expect this Oneness of enlightenment to appear before us, but so often forget to recognise that we cannot observe the oneness, we can only BE it; and to top that, we already ARE the Oneness, but we are too busy looking outward for it.

    Words.... they just can't describe it. ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  3. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    I do not know
    I think I am
    When I think I know
    I am not
    What am I?

    I do not know
    ...

    Waking up in the middle of the night seems like a good time to contemplate going back to sleep. Wisps of thought and sensations drift through my awareness. Being neither fully awake or fully asleep (I think) there seems to be a space between no thought and the awareness of a thought. Noticing the thought and recalling to be grateful for the thought and especially for noticing it builds an awareness of the no_thing state that is the ground of all thought.

    Then I recalled going deep into this moment and found wanting to return to sleep. I became grateful for that thought and cycled up and back trying to stay with the moment while exploring the wanting.

    I felt a sense of balancing as in skiing when both knees are bent and both legs are working in tandem but each with independent suspension.

    Back to the middle of the night. At this moment life seems to be about riding the balance between no_thing and whatever experience (thought or sensation) is occurring. So whether the experience seems pleasant or unpleasant maintaining the balance is the key (like not falling down while skiing).

    Falling down might be falling into experience and not being able to climb back up. And all of the study and practice and meditation are what appear to be steps on the path back up. It seems like I am on the steps of a lighthouse going up a few and then down one and then up again. The small windows I look out of at the different levels of the lighthouse give glimpses of True Happiness along with inspiration to keep climbing.

    I feel back asleep.

    I woke up with the thought

    I do not know
    ...

    Michael:)
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  4. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday Giles, meditate on your Self. Duality... do you mean things like, inward, outward then? Books say lots of things. Books, and all the experts, said it was scientifically, physically impossible to run a four minute mile. Trust yourself. That is the common denominator of successful Spiritual realisation. Meditate rather than read about it, all the answers are there, a part of you, as you say. Why search in books. Have faith in yourself. Why hide behind your mind, mind does this, mind does that. It does whatever you want it to.
    What’s the point of posting and reading about the benefits of meditation? Buddhist Monks experience and exhibit characteristics, because they are totally focused on Truth, the characteristics are just there, more visible as they become more and more aligned with their Truth. They don’t need to focus on the characteristics, but they easily, confidently trust in them. Their minds do as they direct, because rather than read about Truth, they realise Truth, and are sure of themselves. It could easily be you that exhibits the same discovery and realisation of Self, Truth. If it’s, the characteristics, such as bliss, of no importance why waste time reading and posting about it?
    God, can do anything, including describing things in words. Bliss is an aspect of God. That’s my experience. If you don’t understand, you haven’t experienced the same thing. Again, God can do anything, that’s my experience of Oneness. Any time we feel otherwise, it’s a mental delusion.
    Anyone can experience God, Truth, if they are sincere, and serious, and that drives scholars crazy!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2011
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    The weird thing is that I agree with both of you, Giles and Uplift.

    The mind does what you want it to, you said Uplift, and tho this is true for those who understand the nature of the Self, it doesn't seem this way at first, when you still firmly believe in a world of seperation.
    When still in this frame of mind, and having had a first insight into the experiencing of Bliss, in Zen they call this "Satori" or "Kensho", the constant wanting to get back to that feeling of Bliss can be a trap.

    When one doesn't yet know that your existence goes beyond that of mind and emotions alone, it is at first critical to seperate one from the other, in order to see what remains.
    Once you see that neither thought nor emotion are needed for your existence, you will know the real You, and then realise that attention, focus is what triggers mind and emotion.
    Until then it's crucial to leave Bliss alone, it will come when it comes as it comes ( and goes ) until you realise your true nature, and that's when Bliss stays, no matter what you experience, and no matter what emotion or thought comes up in this seeming world of duality.

    But it's quite easy to disagree with everything said there, as like Giles said, words can never describe this, only point towards it.
     
  6. Karmoh

    Karmoh Member

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    Once true freedom (or bliss or whatever) has been recognised, and you have moved from separation, to non-dual awareness. And the realisation dawns that this awareness is only a concept that leads in to seamless experiencing. The trap in the recognition of awareness or the now, god or a plethora of other words means nothing if it leaves you detached from the world or simply repeating the words of this guru or this book. If the words associated with awareness are referring to anything, it is referring to experiencing itself, which is what is happening in the present moment.

    All of life is experience. It is inescapable. Each experience bleeds seamlessly into the next experience. Recognising the now is not about turning away from experience. It is about recognising that experiencing is all that ever happens. In this realisation, you are not tuned out of life. You are turning towards it each moment because you are this moment.

    The irony which we all seem to understand, in the end, you wind up exactly where you started, right here, right now.

    When you are free from the belief in separation, you are free to experience life in whatever way it happens. Everything is welcomed. Everything is seen as a temporary passing. Nothing is pushed away. And nothing is grasped onto, this unceasing experiencing, provides peace because conflict happens only through buying into separation.



    Peace :)
     
  7. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    Thoughts, emotions and experience are all just guests and they come and they go. And when each guest comes in you welcome it…. and you sit down and you have a cup of tea… and a chat….. and you explore. And then that guest leaves after a while. Sometimes you do not even realize that the guest left. And then another guest appears. Sometimes you invite a guest in,… purposely, and sometimes the guest is just there. Sometimes it’s one you don’t want …; they just show up out of nowhere!

    So with each one you just invite them … oh, … you are here…. well okay lets have some tea and a chat….. what’s going on with you?

    And then after a while you realize …that they are not there anymore. And then another one comes up; well, oh, you are here… okay… sit down lets have a cup of tea . And it goes on and on and on and this itself is just another guest going on.

    Above The Guest House a poem by Rumi revisited

    So sometimes I become so involved with a guest that I really enjoy that I forget I am the house and not just having a conversation with a guest. Or one that I really do not want but again I become so drawn into the ensuing conversation that everything else fades away and the conversation goes on going over and over the same thing.
    But in time even these guests disappear.

    Maybe I could wear a cowbell that rings when I move and it could be a reminder that I am the House. That I can open a window and let in some fresh air, take a nice refreshing deep inhalation and a long slow exhalation, pause and remember to return to the whole House and its radiant True Nature.

    Michael:(
     
  8. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday everyone. I keep relating to these experiences I mentioned, because so much instantly dawned on me. I shouldn’t make light of reading, because it’s much, much fuel for the fire, and I certainly did, and do my share. But the experiences clarified and revealed much more than reading and mental work could. One thing became crystal clear, the Being, as Giles mentions. That’s how I initially described it, although books may have influenced that.

    So, minds can only focus, because God chooses that. God can focus, that’s why minds can focus. Anything the mind can do, God, our True Self can do and infinitely, limitlessly more. The only reason anything is, or can Be, is because of God, us. The illusion is thinking this or that is happening without you, and without your choice, be it conscious, or habitual, unconscious. Saying my mind does this, or my mind has this ability, or only minds can do that is denying your Truth, your nature.

    In the early stages it can easily be demonstrated that anyone at any level can stop, start, change, add, subtract, invent, copy, etc, etc thoughts. That simple fact can be very freeing and enlightening as it plants the seed to discovery of our real nature, and begins to unravel much illusion and brainwashing. That we are the mind’s creator, Being, and master.

    Enthusiasm, a mix of thoughts and emotions, positive or negative, is fuel, is us, our commitment, a stronger choice, and as LOA demonstrates is important in creation. What benefit is there in damping positive enthusiasm. While all this discussion has been going on, have a look at that box up in the centre of this page, where it says ‘free sample’. Look at the list of benefits of meditation. Read Michaels description elsewhere on what Lifeflow is. Bliss included. So, why not just say none of that is beneficial, it is in fact detrimental, and as the books say, ‘falsehood’ or ‘duality’, and will lead you astray? Yet, simultaneously why so strong a recommendation for Lifeflow and Michael? Tangled webs.

    My Mind Movies comments ruffled feathers and deep attachments. The comments are nothing but observations of Mind Movies behaviour, which is not at all in line with our Truth, or Oneness, as can be easily demonstrated by one mouse click. Again, why no reaction to that behaviour, but such a strong one to me stating that indescribable bliss is our true nature? Another benefit of meditation, or discovering more about ourselves is to be open with the truth, without being emotionally bound.

    My experience is that a characteristic of our true nature is constant, unlimited, indescribable bliss. It’s worth pursuing our Truth, and any enthusiasm you can muster to choose discovering and realising your Truth is extremely beneficial. Again, that box right up there at the top of the page, broadcasting away. Happiness and bliss can measure progress, just like increased aerobic capacity can measure fitness progress. Don’t bind yourself in Self created tangled webs. But it’s all good practice.
     

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