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Building Enthusiasm

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Michael David, May 10, 2011.

  1. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    I can talk about something I have experienced. Every thing becomes a highlight of the true you. So, something seemingly as trivial as blinking is absolutely, indescribably amasing, because it comes from you, just like not blinking, breathing, heart beating, hearing, quiet, everything is because of you. The talk about indescribable bliss is true. And each instant is experiencing you, that utterly free oneness again, new, so that there is unchanging, yet its an ever increasing intensity that is the constant. So every instant is experiencing that you couldn't possibly feel any better. Nothing normally considered incredible, say even being truly in love and making love with that person, or loving your children even minutely or remotely compares.

    So its not so much that thoughts, etc are just passing things, they are magnificent things, an expression and creation of you, that highlights you. Our disconnected self really can't help feeling and thinking, say blinking is trivial, and processes it differently. But the truth is, a blink is a ridiculously amasing creation, a complete cosmos, a complete universe, if we carefully examine it. Our thoughts are an incredible thing, they truly are because they don't resemble disconnected thoughts. The Jesus's and Buddha's don't have to try and think about love and not harming, its effortlessly part and parcel of Oneness, Realisation, Enlightenment. You might think all my Mind Movies posts are dribble, and me being a pain, arrogant, or whatever, but the truth is in our Truth its natural, our Truth has no urge, reason or need to do those things. Experiencing what I try and describe made that so clear. Its like saying, 'I really, truly choose health, ultimate health, I'll do anything to have it, dedicate myself to it, share it, then drinking petrol. Oneness is pure. Oneness and desperate deceit are dual opposites.

    That's why all the Spiritual Icons place so much emphasis on goodness (Godness), and Truth.
     
  2. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    The mind is a wet suit, you just need to peel it back. ;)
     
  3. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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  4. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Yes, it can be tricky, but that's the nature of mind.

    To put the analogy of the wetsuit in simple words, the point is to not try and look for the water, but to work on removing the wetsuit (layers) and the water will naturally come to our awareness. So, find the things that are holding you back... those "I would, but..." things... and use your intuition in the present moment to see how you can removed those blockages.

    ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  5. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    I feel so much wanting (but not clinging) to answer all of the wonderful posts that helped me wake up earlier today. All in time. Thank you for now.


    These few (for me) words are what is present right now as a summary of this days experience.



    As with the elephant and its different views at various times we resonant better with different thoughts. Although the Self is always available and present we block our view with layers of wetsuits.

    Israelites going into the Red Sea up to and including the water flowing onto their noses
    Complete commitment to this moment. (get soaking wet right now)

    Word pictures (thoughts) are like windows that let us see what is all around us
    Windows that we can open to see the outside
    But we have x-ray vision and do not really need the windows

    Open to the light
    All the rest is commentary

    When we forget we have x-ray vision the word pictures give us hints back to what we already know

    Michael:):)
     
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    You are water looking for wetness.
     
  7. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Quote: 'Yes, it can be tricky, but that's the nature of mind.'

    We are the nature of the mind. It has no nature without us. We give it existance, being, us... and if we choose and accept it, trickyness. We are responsible for the nature we give our mind. The escape, the delusion is blaming the mind for what we make it. Denying, limiting our power our Truth. Self denial.

    Its our God given gift, the gift of constant, consistant choice. Oneness, or not. There is freedom of choice, no force. To be or not to be, everywhere in every creation. To choose, realise, express, experience our Truth. Faith.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2011
  8. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    It has been a very interesting, busy and enlightening day. Thanks you all again for your heart sent and heart felt thoughts, suggestions, insights and personal experiences. My thoughts and underlying sensations have broadened and feel more open.

    I would like to go back close to beginning of our discussion.

    Okay I now see that every moment every experience can be a window to true happiness. The discomfort whether physical, mental or emotional may be experienced for what it is in that moment. What does being late for a meeting feel like? There is the mental component of responsibility, and disappointing others etc and the pure physical sensatons associated with those thoughts.

    In the moment being late has a "this is what this moment of disapointment feels like." sensation. And rather than exiting into some other mind play choose to stay with the present moment faced head on and see what lies beneath it. It may be that the sense of being late and or its sensations resolve and the suffering that had routinely occurred from this no longer has control on a portion of your life. This may then allow a closer reconnection to
    true happiness. (a layer of the wetsuit has fallen away)

    Okay go deep into the stuckness, disolve into it like sugar disolving into water.

    From an alternative view

    I certainly agree. From a positive vibe I can think more clearly and become more mindful. That seems to also be closer to true happiness.

    How are these the same or oposite suggestions? Different paths up the same mountain ? Alternative responses to sense contacts?

    Michael
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Every emotion that occurs, every thought that comes up is meant for that very moment it comes up. The biggest threshold is accepting them when they come up. Accepting that you feel bad, not trying to escape the feelings will provide an underlying peace. Suffering from them means that you are resisting them. A good thing to practice is gratitude.

    Like Uplift said, the emotions and thoughts have existence because of the fact that you are there. A dead body has no emotions or thoughts anymore.
    They are a tool to help you in your daily life. They are based on what you focus on in the Now. Your attention is in a way like a search entry in Google.
    The mind goes out of it's way to provide you with whatever memory, relative information, thought or feeling to help you on your way in the world.
    Feeling sorry that you are late is a tool to help you, as it will make you want to apologise to the person who is waiting for you, and that can help in your social life. The fact that this emotion doesn't feel good is just extra help to make apology's more urgent. Your social life will benefit from it.
    So, be grateful for every thought and emotion that comes up. The mind can't discriminate, it can't judge if the next thought or feeling is useful for you.
    It just brings up whatever is relevant. It is up to you, in the Now, to decide if you want to act upon that thought or emotion or not. You can even choose what kind of action you prefer if several solutions are provided.
    But they are given in the best intention by the best and most useful tool in your life: your mind ! Show it gratitude by thanking every emotion and thought when it pops up for the next half hour, and see if you feel better when you are grateful for them, even the unpleasant ones.
    You can't enter every situation with a positive vibe.
    Some moments are meant to be depressing. Feeling good all the time will make your life dull.

    Emotions are there to be lived through, raw, unaltered, or your mind will store them for a later time.

    Check out this (long) thread where Midnight discovered the truth about emotions:
    http://www.project-meditation.org/community/meditation-chatter-box/3151-jarring-resistance.html
     
  10. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    Hi Edwin

    Another great and helpful post.
    But first a followup on my last post.
    In uncovering True Happiness in this moment and in a memory brought back to this moment the following came up.

    I agree staying with this moment and its discomfort is the most direct path to follow to True Happiness. As attention is placed on this the "muscle" the ability to be with the discomfort (whether physical , mental or emational) will become weary and not be as functional. As a respit to allow for the "muscle" to regain strength, going to a better "thought" or sensation can be a way to both maintain the goal of True Happiness and along with the intention of mindfulness in each moment. And then return to whatever is present in this moment with renewed awareness. Like jacking up a car one notch at a time.

    Okay on to your post.


    The key for me was "Like Uplift said, the emotions and thoughts have existence because of the fact that you are there" and You can't enter every situation with a positive vibe."

    I felt something and a bell went off. If everything tasted like ice cream there would be no more dessert!!

    In meditation I started to be gratful for each thought. I soon found that the thoughts became the object of the stillness (water and wetsuit) . I sensed that all the thoughts I have during the day are objects of the subject (True Happiness).

    Next I dropped into sensation. I found the sensation to be in between the subject of True Happiness and the object of thoughts. That is the sensation now became the object of True Happiness. At the same time the sensations became the subject and having the thoughts bcame its object.

    This continued to one more level. The sensation incorporated my entire body as a tone which has a sense of pleasantness to it. Not the sensation itself but the sense of pleasnatness of the sensation. This tone level became the subject of the sensation level which became its object. True Happiness remained The Subject and now the pleasantness tone level became its object and itself became the subject of the next level.

    I imagine there are many more levels (and peeling off layers of wetsuit).

    I may change my name to Wetted-water so that I will be reminded of it more often.

    By the way what does wetted water feel like to you (or whatever name you might call it by)?

    Michael

    I look forward to reading the thread by Midnight.
     
  11. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday, I hope you all don’t get frustrated with me, but there really is a state of nothing but endless happiness, or ‘unlimited bliss’ as its often described. That’s our true nature. When that experience happened to me, that’s what it was, no need for anything else, it is so fulfilling on every level, even way beyond that. Then I actually, genuinely knew why say, Buddhist’s, could talk about being in ecstasy, whilst performing something like mopping floors etc. Because mopping floors, which believe it or not, as a Hospital Wardsman I was actually doing when that experience happened once, for a couple of days, is just another way of realising, experiencing your Self.
    If we identify with and limit our Self to being the mind, which in our culture we are consciously and unconsciously conditioned to do, we can’t accept that many things are possible, they seem illogical, impossible. Like God being the tiniest, yet largest at the same time. Yet, the irony is that we talk about and ponder an Unlimited Oneness, and that we are That Being, but continue to unconsciously express, and reinforce limits, habitually, and identify with expressions not in tune with that Oneness. But in the experiences I have had, every instant, although unchanging, is like brand new, you never tire of the experience of that ecstasy, or want more, its always perfect. If all is Now, how can ‘unlimited bliss’ be anything but, ‘unlimited bliss.’
    You’ll probably get frustrated that I keep bring it up, but, hence my Mind Movies discussion. Oneness is just that, if we want it, we need to really choose it, especially when our focus is habitually, mostly elsewhere. Because just like if we were super strong, we could play games, and choose to be super weak, and that could become a habit, which, isn’t super strong. We might have a goal, say marketing a product. Oneness has no limit, and can do that beyond our wildest dreams, with Oneness, True, transparent, honest good for all, as the driving force, and thus expression. Then, there is no room, no need for deception. There is no Love, no value in deceiving yourself. So, the expression of deceit will not be anything remotely like the Truth of unlimited Oneness. It seems trivial and pedantic, but our acceptance and fostering of things like deceit, is constantly reinforcing the delusion, the separation from Oneness, unconsciously as well as outwardly. The likes of Jesus and Buddha and others automatically express and experience Truth and Oneness, so act and speak really differently to most people.
    It is interesting that a modern, more and more accepted technique is to accept that we cannot change by will alone. The ultimate suck in and delusion!!! To claim, ‘We are Oneness. Oneness is almighty, all equal, we are in truth That! It is us.’ But then to suddenly embrace and choose that we don’t have the (God’s) Will, to overcome anything, especially the almighty mind, is reinforcing continually the very delusion supposedly not wanted. It makes a lot of money for some, but leads all involved further away from Oneness, and all of the overall benefits.
     
  12. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Just to pick up on one point, and Uplift has already answered it from one subtle angle...

    To emphasise that point, and perhaps put it into words that, well... at least I understand (oh, my mind is in a cheeky mood this morning :D )...

    You say that if everything tasted like ice cream there would be no more dessert. I would disagree. In fact, there would be dessert, but our mind would not be able to quantify it or pass judgement on it such that we would be able to differentiate it from 'other' things i.e. the mind wouldn't be able to create dualism with it.

    It reminds me of a topic of conversation that I've had several times now with people, and one that many vehemently disagree with me (I believe because their minds are hardened to the attachment of dualism). Typically the conversation stems from the question "why do bad things happen to people" or "why does God allow bad things to happen" and the common answer to that usually comes back "because without bad there wouldn't be any good" or "there must be a universal balance of good and bad, so not everything can be good".

    In a sense, the first of those two answers is correct, but is often misinterpreted. The second answer is just hogwash in my opinion (told you my mind was being cheeky :cool:). My answer is just like my answer to your ice cream paradox... Of course, everything can be good, just that we wouldn't be able to recognise the "good" because our mind would not have a dualistic opposite to judge against. And, the truth of the matter is that "good" and "bad" are just labels and completely subjective. Someone may look at a person and consider them a bad person, yet that "bad" person will no doubt be loved by their mother and considered a "good" person. The person themselves cannot be both good and bad, so the label of "good" and "bad" can clearly be recognised as being a dualistic judgement of the observing mind, not the person themselves. Once we recognise that the dualism and judgement comes from our own minds, we can free ourselves of it, and recognise that that person is in fact... a person (yes it's just another label if you want to take it to that level too).

    Robert M Pirsig talks about this a lot in his book, "Zen and the art of Motorcyle Maintenance (an inquiry into values)" from 1974 (and still published today as it's a classic bestseller). The one thing that I clearly remember from reading it (must be nearly 20 years ago now), was his description that "without quality [read: judgement, discernment, duality], a picture on a wall would be no more pleasing than just a blank wall" (my own words, but that's the gist of what he said).

    So... ice creams for everyone... whatever the flavour. ;)

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    What comes up, must come down

    The title is not mine, but that of Alexander Smit, Advaita teacher and ex-student of Nisargadatta Maharaj.

    Whenever a student during satsang would talk about a wonderful spiritual experience, a state of bliss or Kundalini experience, they would go on and on about the experience, and then said that they were sad when the experience ended. The trap with Bliss, is that when the bliss ends or grows less, that you feel you have lost something valuable.
    Alexander knew that no experience could be truth.

    Bliss is not bad, but the reaction of the mind towards it when you are not ready for it can be.

    You can even make it your goal, and that is again like grabbing the stream of water.
    Until the Bliss is constant, it is an experience, and experiences are part of the world of form.
     
  14. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday, in the last two replies, you allow your mind to totally dominate you, unconsciously, habitually. Notice how you always refer to, or defer to, ‘the mind can’t, or the mind must, or the mind does’. Believe it or not, there is existence, understanding and experience, well beyond the mind, that can easily have endless bliss. As long as you can’t, or won’t accept or fathom that, you will be limited by your mind view. Experiences of the mind are part of the world form, and experiences of God are of God. Or does your conditioning and mental view convince you that God, Unlimited Omniscience, or as you say, the true you, is actually quite limited, compared to your mind, and incapable of experiencing unlimited, endless bliss.
    When you experience say, running 100m in under 10 secs, it is what it is, whether or not you do it again, or try to do it again. Reading books about it is different, and once you have experienced it, there is no doubt. Others may try and convince you otherwise, but that is the beauty of God, a Master of ancient texts is no more or less than some passionate, sincere guy mopping floors, although, again, that’s a tough one from a worldly view. The former is easier to believe, and from a wordly view, much more acceptable.
     
  15. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    I love it. You guys live on the other side of the world. So I wake up to these beautiful thoughts.

    Your differing voices are like the various instruments of a symphonic orchestra. Each one has a different sound and when blended together makes spectacular music.

    For me the way that I have gotten around the dualism of good and bad is to start with the notion on non-dual. Everything is God. So how can there be bad?

    Think of a carousel as God. As it spins the further out you go the faster you have to move around a central point, right? Stillness is in the center. As you move further out and faster you are further away from the center of stillness and that is perceived as being less good. As you go faster to keep up with the spinning the Light (God) is stretched out and thinner, therefore in a way less God. Really far out which is even less good is given another name. We call it bad and even further out we would call evil. But it is all God all non-dual.



    Uplift you wrote "Gidday, I hope you all don’t get frustrated with me, but there really is a state of nothing but endless happiness, or ‘unlimited bliss’ as its often described."

    I love that too, and never frustrated by your words of light. Your voice of the absolute "unlimited bliss" is a continual inspiration and is a direction to travel toward. Why aim for anything less?

    Michael:D
     
  16. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    Hi Giles an image for your "just a blank wall" is by Rene Magritte at
    Psychiatrie

    scroll down on that page for a large image Window and easel
    Michael
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  17. Bryan555

    Bryan555 Member

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    I think Edwin is nudging up to a huge truth: that there is only ONE "time". The common human experience of time is very probably an illusion...though a necessary one, to keep things "organized", in our terms. We experience things "in order". But do they actually happen that way? Is it possible that everything happens at exactly the same time?

    That's my own belief. I know some people find it hard to see how it can possibly be so. But, armed with that idea, this whole "dilemma" -- whether to focus on past, present, future -- simply evaporates.
     
  18. Uplift

    Uplift Guest

    Gidday, ‘Ask and you will receive’… ‘To be or not to be’, ‘Love God, love your neighbour’, ‘Where there is light there can be no darkness’. And so on and so on.
    If you are after Self Truth, realisation, enlightenment, Oneness, you don’t need to focus on eternal bliss, time, chakras, kundalini rising, mastering scriptures, whatever concoction we mentally invent. If you focus on those things, choose that, that’s what you will get, if there is enough passion and commitment. All you need to do is ask the simple questions. Hence, the questions, ‘Who am I’? Or ‘Why does man suffer’. It’s also why ‘The Lord’s Prayer’, and the ‘Gayathri Mantra’ are so revered. Or repeating the name of God. With sincerity, passion and perseverance, focus.
    A long time ago I asked how this all works, all this LOA stuff, the world etc. I had zero belief in Oneness, in God, but sincerely and passionately and persistently wanted the truth about my question. That led to a path which then led to the unexpected realisations that I had, along with the associated experiences. My realisation was of Oneness, and it was crystal clear, including the indescribable bliss thing. I think we just need to choose carefully, and ask the right questions, with passion, commitment and sincerity. And it became, it is so clear that we cant fool our Self. Outward means nothing, inward knows the Truth.
    Relating this to the original question, I feel that it’s true, nothing exists without God, or us. Not even chakras, third eyes, angels, and so on. But, if we have lost focus, there are creations and tools that can inspire us as we regain that focus, and become more and more aware of our Truth. As I am a Personal Trainer, I see many similarities with people wishing to get fit, lose weight, grow muscle etc. At first it’s easy to lose heart and give up, because most of the results of the work are unseen, or unfelt. As we persevere, or our focus holds, and grows, and intensifies, momentum shifts, and a point is reached when our reality shifts. Anything we do to help drive that is good. Learning to muster positive emotion at will, is a great tool to have, and also helps foster that realisation that you are not your emotions, that you are not their helpless slave, and helps pinpoint exactly what the real you is, and is capable of.
     
  19. Midnight

    Midnight Member

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    Precisely.

    Earlier on, I would always associate enlightenment and spirituality with those experiences of utter bliss and silence. And I noticed how free and boundless I felt and acted. I thought "this feeling must be the true me! This is how I naturally am!"

    Which is not to say that that statement is totally false, but it got to the point where I had a habit of postponing life until I reached these periods of freedom, where I can act as I please...until I realized that I don't disappear when these experiences pass...therefore these experiences must not be me!

    The hilarious thing about it all was that this freedom was only postponed by the mind! It compared what was happening now to a previous experience where it felt like freedom was more definable, but freedom can't really be defined or limited! That's totally dualistic and opposite to what freedom is! Haha

    So there is freedom in every experience. In moments of extreme fear, or more obviously, moments of extreme bliss. It's all life, it's all free. In the wise words of Jeff Foster "Life doesn't hold back from us, why do we hold back from life?"

    The only thing preventing this from being seen is that your mind is preoccupied with reaching this future state...based on previous experience. It's funny because at first, this is offensive to the mind. It wants to defend the fact it has control and can do things to reach freedom, when in fact all it takes is not fighting what's happening now, and letting go of our ideas of what freedom is based off of our memory, which is ultimately only an idea.
     
  20. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    Thanks for that Michael, I do like Magritte's paintings (or at least my mind does hehe!)
     

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