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Art of meditation

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by Panthau, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Sshhhhh !!!! :mad:

    You were not supposed to answer that.

    And besides, the Self can't be partof the universe, as the universe is part of Self. The universe is bound to laws of time and space, and Self isn't. That's why Self can observe it all ;)

    Still love you tho :eek:
     
  2. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Thanks guys, i gotta think about that.

    Im not (mainly) thinking when i try to watch myself. Its more like i feel something arises, watch it and instantly turn it around to maybe something i like. It feels good for the moment, but bad on the long run.

    "I", "self", arent those concepts? When your "I" returns to the "self", will it stay "I"? Would the "self" describe itself as a "self"? Questions over questions...

    Im becoming more and more detached from my mind, my thoughts have not that important stamp on it anymore... it feels like they are little childs playing around, having fun. Its scary in some way... feeling like im losing something. Is the path i´ve chosen good for me?
     
  3. KeithP

    KeithP Member

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    Hi Pan,
    I have had that very same slightly scared feeling of late. Since starting LifeFlow my mind has quietened to such an extend that sometimes I become aware of the silence. I have been so used to constant mental chatter my whole life that its absence seems very strange and a little unnerving.
     
  4. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Thanks, at least im not alone with that :) :)
     
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    See, I told you guys he was a smart kid ! ;) Any word or description of Self is a concept, you are right. Maybe an empty space would be best. But writing empty spaces would look silly in a forum :D
    Would Self have this doubt ? Or is that doubt a thought ? ;) You are going to hate me, I know it :cool:
     
  6. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    i wont give up my last piece of control naarrhh... my deeaarrrest...

    uh oh, im afraid my mind doesnt like this *gg*
     
  7. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    lol Gollem
     
  8. chris063

    chris063 Member

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    Ooohh, LOVE THIS!!!

    I've heard of the Universe being described as being 'holographic', that is, if it were to be broken down infinitely, each tiny fragment would still contain the Whole.. so WE, could be both part of The Universe, and also contain The Universe itself, all is One and One is All

    :)
     
  9. chris063

    chris063 Member

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    It does feel scary at first, but once you get used to it, you start to feel so much more peaceful :)
     
  10. Franz

    Franz Member

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    Wow guys. This info is awesome! You know how sometimes you feel like your edging closer to your destination, then you take a step back and it feels like you're regressing. After reading these post it feels like I just took 5 steps in the right direction. This is the cycle I have been going through for the past 6 months. I will feel good without any effort. Just watching my thoughts and emotions paying no attention to them. I start to feel a sense of peace and space from my thoughts and emotions. Then my ego sneaks in the back door and I start hearing thoughts like "don't think about that". "You're doing it wrong...this thought is right and that one is wrong, think this thought..." I try so hard to stay in that peaceful place and right when I start trying it goes away. Its like I have to not try to get there. It takes a couple of days then I get so frustrated and give up and when I give up I reach the peace again because I don't do anything. I just sit there during meditation and watch because I am drained from trying to get it right. How do you try to not try? By not trying obviously...easier said then done. Do any of you experience this? One thing I do notice...whenever I arrive to that sense of peace each time it feels like it goes much deeper than the previous time. I look at myself compared to me 6 months ago and I am a totally different person. I used to worry about everything. Now it seems like hardly anything really gets to me. I can still hear my thought "react" to situations and the emotion that follows it, but there's something forming a gap between thoughts, emotions, and myself.

    Anyhow this post was very helpful. Thanks!
     
  11. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Thats great Franz :)

    Theres a question arising in my mind. Lifeflow is supposed to lead you to different brainwaves... brainwaves that lead you to a trance like state. Now there seems to be those two different meditation techniques, one is trancelike and the other one (which i recently discovered and which is completly different and WAY better) is just to be here and in the now. When i now meditate with LF i get into this trancelike state, which is not bad, but when i take the phones of and meditate without LF, i can stay in the now - which is no trance for me and feels like im really meditating.

    Did i misunderstood something?

    Thanks
    Pan
     
  12. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I have little time so I might answer a bit short here, it's not because I want to be rude tho ;)
    Correct.
    Not correct
    Trance like states are hypnosis, not meditation. Both of them occur in or are the cause of certain brainwaves tho.
    When you started out with meditation, you had a wrong idea of it. You started LifeFlow at the same time, and "programmed" yourself to reach this trancelike state while listening to LifeFlow.

    This can be un-programmed. First of all, turn down the volume of LifeFlow to a point where you almost don't hear it. Try to program yourself into staying in the Now. You could do this when it is time to start with the next LifeFlow track, with which you have no programming.
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    And why do you feel that you have to believe these thoughts ?
    You are not a person. That is the last delusion. When you think the word "I" or "me" in what way is that word different from the other thoughts you have ? Are you that word ? Or is that just a word pointing towards something that you believe exists inside you, this elusive "person" you think you are ?
    Franz, I really think you should look at this page:
    End of Seeking - End of Searching - Does the Ego Exist?

    And check out whatever other page that seems to call you with it's title on this site.

    :) and ask any question you might get !
     
  14. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    Aha mhm alright, thanks for the answer Edwin!
    Funny how strong believes can be! :)

    btw, i always try to put the things i want to say in
    its shortest way, so i like short answers when they contain
    everything that is needed :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  15. MDR

    MDR Member

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    Hi -- I'm new to this forum and the LifeFlow process. I've been using the "Discover Meditation" 4 CD download the last few days, as well as the LifeFlow sample. Now I'll be starting LifeFlow10.

    My question (I really am getting around to the topic of this thread!): do I use my mantra while I listen to LifeFlow10?

    Thanks for any advice; this seems like a great community.
     
  16. Franz

    Franz Member

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    Will do Edwin. Thanks! I will check this out once I get home cause I have restricted access at work (I should be working...LOL!)

    Let me give you an example of what goes through my head. There are times when I feel present. I know it because I can feel it and I usually get there when I'm not even trying. I feel so harmonious and everything seems to just flow. Ever since I read this post yesterday I have felt this presence. This is usually what happens. I will read something or will be doing some random thing and feel a certain way. It doesn't feel like I just one a million dollars or anything. Just a very peaceful harmonious feeling. Then I will hear a thought like "ok, if you want to continue to feel this way you have to not pay attention to your thoughts and emotions". Then I hear "am I doing this right?". Then I will dwell on that and it will spiral and I will get frustrated because the more I attempt to stay in this peaceful state the more I drive myself further from it. Weird right? I have always been a worrier but after starting LF and meditation things have changed significantly. The only thing I worry about now is making myself not worry and whether or not I am doing everything correctly to stay present and in the "NOW" which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

    Is there anything you do to get you back on track like a quick exercise or would that push you further away because you are trying to be "enlightened". I don't know. Something inside of me is telling me that I am so close. Everything in my life seems to be so perfect and everything is panning out the way I want. I meditate almost daily and I also practice the Law of Attraction and I have had some remarkable things happen to me. I don't think of all I want as far as material things though. I dwell on what I love to do and how I can share my passion with others to make them feel good. When I think of money I think of all who I will share it with and the good I will do with it. Some people use the LoA for nothing but material gain and I do not know if it works them or not but I do know that enlightenment goes well with the LoA.

    I have so many questions...I can go on and on.

    Anyhow I wanted to ask you a question Edwin. Can you describe how you got to where you are? Did it take alot of effort in the beginning? When did you realize that you were on the right path? Was there a defining moment when everything kinda clicked and made sense? Were you very confused at some point? Thanks buddy. As I said before, you guys are awesome. This stuff is really helping me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  17. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Ahem... Right, I have my work cut out for me here..:p


    *takes deep breath*
    Your mind is telling you this. But actually, the only way to not be present, is to be out cold. No matter if you are focusing on it or not, there is always presence awareness as long as you are awake ( and even when you are sleeping and dreaming )
    Your thoughts are telling you that you are not constantly feeling it, and you choose to believe that thought. Treat EVERY thought with suspicion. I will show you how a bit further down this post ;)
    That is one of the problems. Mind ( a collection of words that are thought ) tells you that you have to do this or that to continue to feel like that ! But since you have been doing a lousy job in trying to control how you feel or how you should think, don't you think it is impossible to change how you feel or think ?
    In meditation, you learn to observe thoughts and emotions as from a distance. You see, even in meditation, thoughts and emotions can't be controlled. However if you choose not to respond to them, to just observe them, watch them, attention without intention, the feeling or emotion will pass, and the next one will come. And then the next. Just as they always have, but now you aren't forcing yourself to do something with the thought or emotion. And after having seen the emotions and thoughts pass, after a while you start to see the space between them and You.
    A person can never become enlightened. A person is a projection in the mind, a collection of thoughts, EGO. When you start to investigate the ego, you discover that it isn't there. There is nothing there. There is no person called Franz inside you. Just presence-awareness or whatever you want to call it, in which everything appears. The world, your body, your thoughts, your emotions, all are objects that appear in awareness. So thinking that you are a person is just that: thinking that you are a person.
    By asking questions just like you, and by asking myself questions like "Who am I"
    Oh yeah... But I wanted to really badly.
    When I realised that the person Edwin was an illusion.
    yes, and that was the end of it
    I was very confused until the realisation came.
    When you are home, go to that website. Realise that Franz doesn't exist. There is no person in you. Just thoughts. When the thoughts stop, you don't cease to exist, so thoughts are useless. They are mind's reaction to that which has allready taken place.
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Update

    This is not enlightenment. It is an experience, a state of mind. As such, it can only be temporary. If it is temporary, it can't be who or what you are. No matter what happens to you, no matter what you think, no matter what you are feeling, underneath all that is awareness, watching every thought and emotion pass.

    Feeling peacefull is a nice experience, and you are allowed to feel that way and enjoy it, of course.
    But who is enjoying it ? The person Franz ? Does this person exist ? Or is that person a story in your mind ?
    And enlightenment, what do you think it is like ?
    In that case, enlightenment can only be a projection in your mind of what mind thinks it has to be like.

    The Buddha once said:
    "Our theories of the eternal are as valuable as are those which a chick which has not broken its way through its shell might form of the outside world. "

    When you think about enlightenment, you can't reach it.

    Who is thinking anyway ? Are thoughts just popping up in your head, or is Franz thinking ?
    If in the meditation course Michael tells you to treat thoughts like clouds, they come up, they pass, they disappear again...
    Would you say that when you are watching clouds pass, you are "clouding" ?

    So why are you "thinking" then ?
    And who is thinking ?
     
  19. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    my respect for the energy and effort
    you put into helping others on this board, Edwin! :)
     
  20. Franz

    Franz Member

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    Wow Edwin! I really do appreciate such thorough response. I will let these ideas sit while I meditate this evening. I am wondering if anyone else on this path had the same questions as me. Thanks again! :)
     

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