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Are there sensations of meditation?

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by Michael David, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. Hazelkay

    Hazelkay Member

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    Whoa

    Just to clarify - I have by no means entered the fourth Jhana!!!

    I can access the first and have dipped toes into the second.

    For Edwin -

    I suspect it depends on your motivation - it would certainly be an experience, it would be blissful, it's effects show some time after - it is hard to describe in words and trying, I think, would be misleading.

    Unless you are already gifted in developing deep samadhi - it will be a considerable investment in time.

    I don't sit for that sort of samadhi now - I prefer developing ongoing awareness in this material world, which is ineffably beautiful. I did find developing the jhanas was a little separating and not good for diminishing my ego.
    peace and joy:)
     
  2. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Self realization to me is the same as enlightenment. It is realising that life is almost like a movie, playing in front of your true Self. Once you realise that, all resistance towards life drops away, and a deep peace emerges. Problems don't exist anymore, as problems are not caused by circomstances, but by your reaction towards it, trying to resist the situation life presents. The person, ego, whatever you thought yourself to be before is now an actor playing, just like everybody else is.
    How that relates towards Jhana's and "going beyond awareness" I don't know, and that's what I would like to find out. :)

    I do know that Ramana Maharshi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is considered to be the one who made Advaita Vedanta known again. And he also spent years in Samadhi.
    Haha that's a funny one !:D
    I tried for the first time yesterday evening, just sat down and followed the instructions as all you guys have so kindly provided me with.
    It was a pleasant experience, and I am not quite sure if what I experienced could be described as jhana. I sat, focused on my breathing until the body settled, and then noticed that a stronger "sense of Self" developed. The stimulants of body and mind fell away, and a deep feeling of peace emerged. I simply sat and enjoyed it, and after about 5 minutes I noticed a sound, coming from the door of my room that I forgot to close. So, I opened my eyes to take a look at the clock, and was somewhat baffled by the fact that 25 minutes had passed, and not 5 as I thought.
    Since I did feel pleasant, but had no recollection of experiences of "rapture" or "bliss" ( at least not more than I am used to in meditation ) I decided that I had either brushed against it, but not quite, or must have fallen asleep ( lol )

    I will give it another go.

    Hazel, through Advaita Vedanta I have learned that trying to deminishing the ego is useless, and not even useful. It is enough to realise that you are not the ego, but the observer of the ego. Once you realise that, ego becomes just another object to observe, just as much as the computerscreen in front of you. Then you can let go of ego, allow it to be, and it's seeming power is instantly seen through as false. It is just thoughts and emotions, playing their act for you to observe.
     
  3. Hazelkay

    Hazelkay Member

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    Hazel, through Advaita Vedanta I have learned that trying to deminishing the ego is useless, and not even useful. It is enough to realise that you are not the ego, but the observer of the ego. Once you realise that, ego becomes just another object to observe, just as much as the computerscreen in front of you. Then you can let go of ego, allow it to be, and it's seeming power is instantly seen through as false. It is just thoughts and emotions, playing their act for you to observe.[/QUOTE]

    so true Edwin - but a few years ago that wisdom was not there and I reacted with displeasure when I observed it in action. Now I smile and perhaps jhanas were not the problem but a bit of a cloudy nimitta. At the moment I don't feel impelled towards jhana again - but this too may change
    peace and joy:)
     
  4. Michael David

    Michael David Member

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    Hi Edwin

    A deep peace emerges -- What do you notice about the deep peace. what sensations do you notice are present along with the deep peace?

    The stimulants fell away and peace emerged
    Same question What do you notice when the deep peace is present?

    What sensation changes when the deep peace is absent?

    At times during the day when you are sensing the opposite of deep peace such as annoyance or fustration etc notice what is present what sensation is there at that time.

    Play with the experience of these differing sensations as a practice to notice the pleasant sensation that is associated with access to jhana.

    (play with sensation --make a tight fist hold it closed --what do you feel? open and relax your hand--notice the change of sensation--play with it up and back--start to notice and locate the sensation associated with thoughts in each moment)

    Remember your post quoted here about non concepual awareness what does the water feel like?


    Originally Posted by Michael David
    Hello Karmoh and Edwin

    Many times today when I became conscious of the "automatic" glow of thought I found myself focused on a blend of three thoughts. An image/sensation of the water with the dirt settled, the non-conceptual feeling left after the thought and a sense that I am the water just watching the whole parade.

    Stick with that last sensation if you can. Be the water... In fact, you have no choice, you have always been the water. You just realized it now.
    Just as water is unchanged by dirt, it just looks merky for a while when the glass is stirred, consciousness is unchanged by whatever is stirring up your life at this time.


    In the non-conceptual space I slipped in and out of this sense of being the water, amorphous, free and unbounded and the concentrated thought whose echo would come and go. The watery part was very soothing.

    Is thought blocked or concentrated awareness?

    Does it need to be blocked ? Concentrated awareness is focus, a product of the mind. Useful in daily life, but unable to change the texture of consciousness. Just like thoughts, they are but a stirring of the glass.
    You are the water, always, even when you are not paying attention to it.
    Even when your focus is on a cloud of dirt coming up to the surface, even when an extra spoon of dirt is added to the glass, you are still the water in which all the dirt appears. Try it, it's your experiment


    Is it one part of the flow of open awareness, like the contact of a ball with a flat surface?

    I'd say that this is roughly the same answer. Open awareness is the water. It is the first basic condition for the whole experiment. It is who you are, there is no point to stirring a glass of dirt without water right ?
    concentrated awareness, even tho it seems very close to open awareness, isn't the same. Concentrated awareness can end, you can lose focus. But when the body loses consciousness, everything stops.
    It's like open awareness is the eye, and concentrated awareness is the glass of your spectacles. Specs are useless without an eye peering through them. But when open awareness, the eye, looks through them, the glasses just help focus the image the eye is receiving effortlessly.
    Take away the glasses ( concentrated awareness ), and still the eye ( open awareness ) is effortlessly receiving images. Only with an eye needing glasses the image is out of focus haha, so that is where the analogy goes sour


    If non-concepual awareness is without thoughts how can it be described? Can it be felt in the body? Is it like the taste of sn orange?

    Spot on ! It's impossible to describe. You can get the "feel" of it through a good analogy, like for instance that of a glass of water with a spoon of dirt in it

    That feeling you described, of being the water watching the whole show... that's it !
    That's what it's all about !


    This link Entering Jhana
    by Leigh Brasington who I believe studied under Ayya Kheme is one of the most distilled set of guidelines for the jhanas.

    Starting with morality, right intention and reducing the hindrances are all important. Ayya Khema book Who IS MY Self is excellent on the hindrances and a great meditation even without flowing into jhana.

    Michael :)
     

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