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Any other creator than yourself?

Discussion in 'The Law Of Attraction' started by susi_gal, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. susi_gal

    susi_gal Member

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    Hi all, thanks for reading,

    I know that Law of Attration works, I've seen it worked multiple times just in last year, and then there is this little thing that I cannot be quite clear about...

    Some proponents of LOA, such as Joe Vitae and Abraham, state that "you are the only creator of your life," that all that is happening is drawn by your thoughts. But, I cannot help but say, what about god? Aren't there times when you notice spiritual voices hinting you on the hidden meanings in an event, or when something happens for the god's will for the greater good? Most importantly, isn't there some times when you should just surrender to god or spiritual source and ask "god's will be done for the best thing to happen" instead of making clear of what you want concretely and ask for that specific results?

    I have been confused on that aspect these days... If anyone is willing to share your view, it would be great.
     
  2. onetwothree

    onetwothree New Member

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    I believe that surrrendering to Gods will is also part of the process. Remember that God is you.. So when you sit and listen, God, your higher self, has an opportunity to help you along your path. It is part of being a co-creator of your life. Listen to your higher self and be guided along your path. This helps you to know what you really do want out of life, which aids in creating your life.
     
  3. Londonwriter

    Londonwriter Member

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  4. stretchingout

    stretchingout Member

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    Hi there - I'm not sure if Londonwriter got out of bed on the wrong side or has not been meditating long enough to have released the obvious emotional scars this person has. Never mind as this site is for support and to freely discuss things without being ridiculed or judged.

    Now I am not a religious person and do not believe in such a God figure but I have been searching for quite a while now to questions that have been begging to be answered. What I have gathered from all my questions and reading and searching is that you yourself are God or the Universe. Or rather the universe is constantly acting through you because every one of us is divine and the centre of our universe. It does this through our thoughts so what ever thoughts you have are from the universe, and once conceived in thought must then materialise spiritually. The concept of meditation helps to focus your thoughts and greatly aid the materialisation by regularly tapping into this divine thought power.

    I think Londonwriter has missed the point of "The Secret" - not sure if they've looked around but the world is a mess and people have gotten lazy with their thinking. Abundance is their for everyone and "the Secret" was put together to try touch a greater amount of people.

    We all need to give thanks for existing in an age of information where you have all the knowledge you could possibly want at the touch of a button.

    I wish you the best with your meditation and I hope you find what you are looking for. (rather long winded reply sorry)
     
  5. Divinitywolf

    Divinitywolf Member

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    I totally agree with you stretchingout.
    I'm also trying to find answers.
    I think that theres no problem with believing in God, even if he doesn't exist.
    The belief itself stirs hope, happiness and comfort in people and thats a valuable thing to have. People with a strong belief in God seem to me to be better off than those with no faith.
    God may or may not exist. There is no way of knowing. However God can be a representation of whatever you want. He doesn't have to exist for you to feel comforted by him in times of need. He doesn't have to exist to be in your very soul, guiding you...

    To me The Secret is all about belief. Having a strong belief in good things seems to subconsciously (or consciously) compel a person to do things they aren't aware of therefore attracting good things into their lives. I think the ultimate message from the secret is to be positive, even in bad situation, if you can think just one positive thought then it can turn your whole life around.
    I get Londonwriters point about the children in Africa. They can't attract many good things but they CAN think positive thoughts. They can make the most of what they've got and if the world reaches out to them and helps them then they will have more to appreciate.
    Meditation has taught me this, especially the bit about having positive thoughts even in bad situations. This guidance has been valuable to me and i'll never forget it.

    So i wish you happiness and good fortune.
    May you find what you seek and live long and prosperous lives.

    Divinitywolf

    P.S: sorry if this was a bit long. I wrote it from deep within my emotions and couldn't stop writing!
     
  6. Ras

    Ras Member

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    I saw this post right after Londonwriter reply but didnt quite know how to react to his post heh...

    Basicly I agree with him, its no secret that I dont believe in any form of God. What do I believe in, and has always believed in, is that the world and your life is what you make of it. To me, the concpet of "The secret" is nothing more than a way to make people realise this very thing - if you notice the most succesful people in the world they are succesful because they really wanted something, and really gave it their best try. The major difference here is that I do not believe these people realised their dream(s) because of some mental power which alters the world to their own liking, but rather that they choose to focus their life on one specific thing, thus gainning it.

    I dont know if this is going too off topic, but I cant help but comment a bit on one of the things Divinitywolf mentioned... that people who believe in some sort of god are better off than those without belief. To me that is kinda insulting (I know it isnt meant that way, which is way there are no hard feelings:cool:) as I believe that people without a belief in a god can be just as morally good, as kind, as smart and as "good" a person as anyone else...just wanted to share that view ;)
     
  7. Divinitywolf

    Divinitywolf Member

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    Yes Ras. I understand what you are saying and i wasn't implying that they were better people. I was just saying that they may be better off in life believing that God exists because they're more likely to feel comforted and happy and protected.
    It has nothing to do with how good they are as a person, i'm just talking about how they could cope with life.
    And i'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone. People that don't believe in a God may still feel very comforted and protected and happy.
     
  8. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Wow!! That 's obviously why we are told not to discuss religion or politics!!We all have our own individual map of reality which we believe to be the truth. Some keep their map all their lives and some search and find better ones.
    It never ceases to amaze me how people are always quick to blame God (however you perceive God to be) but slow to give thanks each day for the gift of life. There is abundance everywhere and enough for everyone if we love, help and encourage one another. I think a lot of people will not agree with "the secret" or the fact that "thoughts become things" because then they will have to take responsibility for where they are right now. Many will not dare to dream because they are afraid to fail.
    If you want to let go and let God - do it!
    If you dare to dream - go for it!
    Too many people live in a box, watching a box, waiting to be put in a box!! And think they are alive. We all have the freedom to choose. We can be as happy or as miserable as we choose. I hope you all choose happiness and joy and I leave you with :) :) :)

    Desiderata

    Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
    If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
    Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
    Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
    Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.


    Strive to be happy.
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Londonwriter, I am pretty sure you know exactly what to think of concepts like God and "the law of attraction" and feel free to give your opinion about it.
    We will all respect you for it.

    You might however have noticed that a lot of people felt the need to react to your post, and this has nothing to do with your opinion.
    It purely has to do with how you seem to feel better by attacking other people, or in this case Susi_gal and onetwothree.
    It is not nessacary and uncalled for.

    Please try to meditate for 30 minutes BEFORE you post next time. You might not believe in Karma, but you will have to agree that your actions only created more hostility, and had you given your opinion without the sarcasm, we would have reacted less defending and a more pleasant atmosphere would have been created.
    Please don't think I am slashing at you, I am merely hoping to see a different side of you next time.

    back on topic:
    I do think that "the Secret" is a bit too materialistic.
    The concept itself is not invented by the developers of the movie, but poorly translated from those that have worked with this concept before.
    The secret works for you, but you can also make it work for others, and I think the movie "the Secret" might have concentrated a bit more on that.
    The idea that everybody who has bad things happen to themselves, even things like cancer or whatever has done this themselves to me is something I refuse to believe.

    God deals the cards, we just have to play them.
    Bad things happen to people randomly, what makes some people remarkable is how they deal with it.
    However that's just how I think of it, maybe others feel different, that's cool too :rolleyes:
     
  10. twinkletoes

    twinkletoes Member

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    :( Hi you guys, yes the postings did feel a tad tense. i received the secret dvd and watched it yesterday and yes there wear parts that were materialistic but you know what, you can take from it what you will. I took away from it that if you think negative you attract negative and if you think positive you attract positive, I liked the bit re instead of anti war rally turn it to a pro peace, already it has turned it to someting positive. I am not materialistic and my focus is on improved health and a relaxed and happy life and if that involves my dreams of a happier work life and less financial worry then great. I will listen to your opinions londonwriter but it did feel a bit aggressive when reading and yes it did send negative vibes into the community and hence the responses.
    Ido hope that you don't take offence I'm just expressing how it made me feel ;)
     
  11. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Twinkletoes you are the perfect example of someone who can use the LOA for a different goal than financial gain.
    According to the Secret the best way to reach good health is to not focus on getting better, but imagine that you allready are, and feel good about it.

    This must be hard as you don't have that much energy left...
    BTW might I be as ungentleman-like to ask you how old you are ?

    You see, my mother in law also suffered from your condition for 30 years, spending much of that time in a wheelchair.
    two years ago she suffered a stroke in her brain, and while in the hospital recovering from that, they noticed that she snored quite badly.
    That made them think about sleep apnea ( Sleep Apnea: Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis and Treatment ), she was diagnosed with it, and they started treating it right away, turnes out she had not had one single REM-sleep in 30 years.
    She is now out of her wheel chair, and can walk stairs again.
    Last year she even was able to walk with us in the zoo, all day without having to rest !!!

    Now I am not saying that you might have this problem, but it certainly is worth looking into it. A lot of doctors just fail to think about this when someone is diagnosed with your condition.

    Greetz, Edwin :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
  12. twinkletoes

    twinkletoes Member

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    :) Hi Edwin, no I don't mind you asking, I'm 43 years young!
    Yes I have been visualising how i am not asking to be well, i imagine driving the car to the beach this summer and carrying the beach bags and lyin on a beach towel watching the kids playing water polo and then running full pelt down the sand and diving into the water to join them. :p
    Thanks for the info re your mum in law, its great to hear that she's walking and doing the stairs, how great after spending so long in a whelchair.
    My sleep pattern is and has been dreadful for about 15years and I seem to be in and out of half slep and aware of the night for most of the night. I have been told that I do snore and loudly at times :eek: so I will take this up with the specialist (now that after 4 years of battling with my G.P to believe me that I'm unwell), I have appt next weds and they are coming across to the Island as there is not a chance of me travelling by boat and train and bus at present.
    Yes in regard to the law of attraction it just made me think of how negative I've been and how that has remained. I looked at my dog this am and instead of thinking "yes I it would be lovely to take you out for a walk but i have neither the strength or the energy" I thought " I will be taking you out for a walk and soon" even just thinking that seemed to attract other things and I managed to do quite a bit of ironing and other house things with lesser pain and with a little more energy, though I've just got up after 31/2 hours sleep.:D
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    not that old then, you are not even halfway yet :p
    I myself am 33 years young, as long as we are exchanging info :D

    Snoring itself is not a sign that you might have apnea btw... it's one of the signs, but it doesn't have to be.

    I am not sure how things are in Britain, but in Holland we actually have 1 centre in the Netherlands especially focussed on apnea.
    They can let you sleep over at their lab, and they can collect data during the entire night.

    I sincerely hope that you get the same chance, and that I am even remotely right, so that you can get better and make that run for the water this summer ! :cool:
     
  14. twinkletoes

    twinkletoes Member

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    thanks edwin :)
    Yes we have some sleep centres over here. I am going to be asking many things when i go for my first appointment with the m.e team next week and so I shall ask about that too. I've had all sorts of tests to rule out other causes of my symptoms but no one has ever discussed the sleep issues and being so tired and struggling to have the doctors believe that i'm not a hyperchondriac has been very tiring. :eek: If i'd have had a damaged knee they wouldn't have thought twice about referring me to the right place but there, finally I'll get to speak to people who have dealt with many cases. I am finally on the right track. Hows the car going? :D
    Oh btw i went for reiki treatment and discussed doing my level 1 so a year down the line and at level 2 i will send healing distantly as promised :D :D
     
  15. Divinitywolf

    Divinitywolf Member

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    Well good luck Gilli. I'm sure they'll collect all sorts of great info while you're peacefully asleep and they'll fix you up and your beach dreams will come true!
    It certainly looks hopeful so you're bound to improve your condition soon and get better.
     
  16. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    The car is on it's way to Holland last time I asked ( about a week ago ) so it should be like about a week, maybe 2 and it should be here :D

    Can't wait really....:eek:

    Actually, as much as I enjoy the idea of someone sending me healing energy, I am doing quite fine by myself !
    It doesn't feel like I might need to heal, so maybe you can focus your Reiki attention on other people that have your condition... It would make me feel better too, I kinda live by the decree "if it's not broken, don't fix it" :p

    Please inform us ( up to a point where you feel comfortable with sharing ) on your progress with the medical staff !
     
  17. D. James Albert

    D. James Albert Member

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    Your question is really about the potential for your life to include that which is not directly created by you. Without writing a thesis, no one here can answer your question about God until such time as we know exactly what 'God' means to you - and even then opinions would be highly subjective or at least highly debatable. God means many different things to many people, depending upon your religious belief, and depending upon your non-religious belief. But your question regarding the ability for your life to be directed in part or even to a large extent by the power of another creative mind is simple - you live in a reality of mind and matter, of form and formlessness, of the physical and the non-physical - and that reality is made up of many minds just like your own. Thus, you (at least currently) are experiencing a reality that is shared, and so the creation aspect of that reality is also shared. Co-creation is your answer, which in turn negates the idea that 'only' you are the creator of your life. You are, however, the 'only' person who directs yourself through the co-creation, and so the Law of Attraction remains highly important for the power to direct it is your greatest ally in the creation of what you experience here. If you are the 'only' person who directs you through it, does that mean you could resign to allowing yourself to be directed by God or similar power? Let yourself feel the answer, rather than think it.

    Firstly, I agree, read everything you can to become as learned as you can. But, with respect to Dawkins, he is as dogmatically religious towards atheism as the people he criticizes are towards their personal religion. Despite opening his book with an introduction that explains explicitly his purpose is to promote atheism, within the pages of his book he admits he cannot classify himself as a complete 100% atheist. The problem is many people rebel against the possibility of the existence of a Higher Mind, a Creator, God if you will - simply because they associate that possibility to their disdain and disbelief of particular religions. Disbelieve a religion that promotes the idea of God, and therefore God must not be real. In my youth, raised in a Catholic family, I did the same thing. I couldn't accept what was taught in the Church, and so I rebelled against it all by proclaiming myself an atheist. This is ok though, for swinging from one extreme to the other is a natural part of being able to find the middle way.

    If a religion creates God in man's image for the purpose of controlling the masses, this in itself does not mean a Creator, an Originator, a Higher Power, a Source, or a 'God' does not exist. It merely means the truth related to such a profound subject has been distorted. Susi-gal, by all means, follow Londonwriters advice and read Dawkins work - the wider our knowledge base the more perceptive and aware we become - the more opinions we understand, the greater our own wisdom. But realize that, like other religions you may not subscribe to, Dawkins has his own. Where one person's religion states God exists, another's states God does not exist. The real difference resides in the attempt to understand. When it comes to atheism, there is no attempt to understand. There is only the false claim of complete understanding. But consider this: Dawkins cannot explain the origin of the universe, nor the origin of life - he cannot explain where we come from through his belief in atheism. So can he really know for 100% certainty how life itself works, and what happens after death? He can't - atheism can only blindly guess - which is why in his book he is unable to subscribe fully to the very thing he promotes. Find the middle way.

    The difficulty with the Law of Attraction is that it is promoted by many so-called 'teachers' whose primary purpose, despite the persona they put forward, is to profit materialistically. So consider this. If a con-man sells you non-existent real estate, does this mean all real-estate is non-existent? If you cannot see infrared light with your own eyes, does this mean the infra-red spectrum does not exist? If an unscrupulous person starts a charity but keeps all the donated money for themselves, does this mean there is no such thing as a worthy charity? The answer is pretty simple. The Law of Attraction is a fancy name to describe the composition of the creative process. That process involves the use of mind and body, of thought and action. Because the idea of the Law of Attraction may be presented in ways that seem like psychobabble, does not mean that there is in fact an attractive process behind the creative process. I for one had never experienced it until I was 23 years old - so for me, until then, it was a joke. But once I experienced it first hand, then learned more and more on how to experience it more regularly in a constructive way to my life, it became no longer a fanciful theory, but a simple truth. What I'd like to say is, before you close yourself off from the possibility that there is something behind the creative process that is more profound than what your physical senses perceive on the surface level, simply ignore those teachers who irk you in favor of an honest quest to find out the truth of the matter for yourself.

    What you have said there is the beauty of the Law of Attraction as a concept. If you don't believe that mind can alter matter, but that you can gain whatever you want by applying your focus to it, then the exact nature of the process that allowed you to gain what you wanted won't be of any consequence to you - so long as you gain it. Much like turning on a light switch - you don't need to know how the electrical system works to flick the switch for light. But, I'd like to propose something to think about. Many people struggle with the idea that mind can influence reality. Reality is simply form or the existence of the physical. Your body is physical. Look at your arm, and now move it. Right there you have evidence of mind influencing physical reality. Thus the only leap of faith is the belief that your mind can have an influence on the physical reality that exists beyond your body. The best scientific study of that is the Global Consciousness Project at Princeton University. I highly recommend taking a look at that :)
     
  18. Montana Keith

    Montana Keith Member

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    Thank You

    Dear James,
    Welcome to this forum. I've been noticing and reading your posts these last couple of days. I sense in you a friend who I would enjoy visiting with. I admire your responses to some of the questions raised in this forum.

    I think I read in another thread that you have written a book. Could you tell me more about it? Also, if it isn't too forward, I'd like to hear more about yourself. What are some of your life experiences that have brought you to this forum at this time?

    Again, thank you so much for your taking time to post here. --Keith :)
     
  19. ian0204

    ian0204 Member

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    hi Darren

    Hi Darren like Keith i find you very interesting and knowledgeable.I am looking forward to reading any of your posts I can find.I am new to this whole process but I am looking forward to discovering a way to inner peace and happiness.Thanks again. Ian
     
  20. Montana Keith

    Montana Keith Member

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    Thank You

    Hi Darren,
    Thank you for responding so quickly. I'm sensing that you have arrived as a "guest"--for some background on why I write "guest," please see my post on December 9th in the following thread: (http://www.project-meditation.org/community/mind-body-spirit/1081-out-body-travel-10.html#post5802)--in my life right now to guide me to another level of awareness. I tell you "shift" truly is happening. More and more people are waking up all around the world. I have ordered your e-book and look forward to reading it. What you have done with writing your own book based upon insights you have received is something I'm being lead and groomed for. As your time permits, I will value "sitting at your fire" and learning from you.

    I am currently in contact with a gentleman, John Paily, in India whose writings you may be interested in. How I became aware of this scientist is through a dream by a fellow "Project Meditation" poster--Karen. Here is the link to this experience: (http://www.project-meditation.org/community/mind-body-spirit/1081-out-body-travel-9.html) In particular, please see my post of November 29th. Here is the link to John Paily's writings on Is Centrioles or Centromere the Center of Consciousness?
    (Is Centrioles or Centromere the Center of Consciousness)

    A lot of my writings are posted on this forum. I do have a blog, but I haven't posted there for a while. It is: (Contemplative Remembrance)

    I look forward to our developing and unfolding friendship. Like I said in other posts on this forum. I think the time is soon coming that many of us here will be physically present with each other. I'm looking forward to this. Take care. Your friend, --Keith :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008

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