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A question or two about Lifeflow...

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Whitefort, Dec 15, 2007.

  1. Whitefort

    Whitefort Member

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    Hi guys - I'm new here, and I have a question or two about the Lifeflow system.

    I've been glancing through the CD contents, and (if I've understood it correctly!!!) it seems that you start with CD 10, eventually working to CD 1 progressing to the next CD after a month or so - and that this progression slowly trains your brain to get to deeper and deeper states/rhythms.

    My main question is: does this mean that the earlier CDs 'force' your brainwaves to stay at Alpha levels? What I mean is, if someone is a semi-experienced meditator, will using the earlier CDs keep them at a shallower level of meditation than they're used to?

    Since Michael has kindly made CD 10 available as a freebie for signing up, I'm certainly going to give it a shot - it certainly seems to demonstrate that he has faith in his products - but I have to admit to being a little worried in case the CDs restrict me to nothing but Alpha for the first few months.

    Thanks!

    John
     
  2. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    This link should help you John

    About Lifeflow

    Hi John,
    this link may answer your question. After meditating for a number of years I bought the Lifeflow pack earlier this year. I had praticed T.M. for years and used binaural beats also. I began with Lifeflow 10 and found it to be amazing. I have actually listened to all the tracks now with and without headphones. To-day, I meditated with Lifeflow 8 and it was wonderfully peaceful. I use the Alpha and theta levels the most because of all the beneficial hormones that are released. The scientific research is also really informative reading. Hope this answers your questions John.Peace and happiness to you :) Pollyanna
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2007
  3. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    I have no experiance with Life flow, but I don't think the Life Flow can keep you in the wrong level just by itself.

    As advanced as this system might be, it's no more than an aid in meditation.
    Don't expect it to be a miracle system where you just sit down, close your eyes and listen to the music and "shazam" you are in a deep state.

    You have to know how to meditate, and obviously you allready know that.
    I personally think ( again, no experiance ) that Michael made 10 cd's so that you can get used to the concept of music/sounds during meditation, gradually adding more so the brain can cope.

    Maybe it's best to just follow the one month steps for now, and if you notice that it affects your state of mind that you allready reached, or notice a negative result in your everyday life, you could temporarily do an extra meditation the way you are allready used to every day.

    But just to be sure, I think you better wait until Michael responds here too ;)

    Good luck with your meditation !
     
  4. Whitefort

    Whitefort Member

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    Thanks for the replies, guys.

    Since posting, I've had a CD 10 session. Wow. I'm impressed.

    For years now, I've been meditating (on and off - usually to deal with stressful times). I've also tried various CDs and tapes, from the 'self-hypnotic' stuff, to CDs that sneak the rhythms into music, to the 'pure' binaural stuff that just usually sounds like swooshes and buzzes.

    Obviously I can't comment on the effectiveness after a single session, but I will say that it was a NICE session. I was expecting more binaural swooshes and buzzes, and this was a very pleasant surprise.

    OK. I'm going to try to stick with this, and give it the full 10 months.

    John
     
  5. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Well done John

    Absolutely brilliant and well done for giving it a go. As the saying goes nothing ventured - nothing gained. Before Lifeflow, meditation used to be a chore to me. Lifeflow is my special rejuvenating time - I love it and I'm sure you'll benefit greatly from it too. It's so natural and healthy :) Pollyana
     
  6. Peaceful Warrior

    Peaceful Warrior New Member

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    Nice 1 John!

    Gooood ya!!!!!

    How did you find the crickets on LF10?? PW
     
  7. stephen1313

    stephen1313 Member

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    Hi, been using another product for about a year now, going through various levels, so I was really interested to learn from Michael that headphones werent neccesary anymore. Used CD10 today without headphones and was really impressed! I am also deeply grateful for Michael sharing all this with us. Bless you.
     
  8. Matti

    Matti Member

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    question

    I have question too about life flow. I have tryed life flow one time yesterday so next time i continue where i left or in the beginning of cd.
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    If I were you I would start again at the beginning.

    But I would urge you to try to sit it out at least one time, just so you can experience the full benefit from the cd.
    It would seem like a long time at first, but really, you deserve to have a private moment just for yourself for 40 minutes.

    Maybe 30 minutes will allready do the trick for you too !
     
  10. John

    John Member

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    Hi
    Can you tell me if one uses lifeflow 7 or 3 for exsample is the CD pure theta or Delta frequency or does it gradually go from beta to alpha and then on to Theta (in CD 7) and Delta ( in case of CD 3 )
    Thanks
    John
     
  11. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Unique and beneficial effects are felt equally at all levels. No one is going to "get enlightened" any sooner by listening to LF-1 than they will by listening to LF-5. If they believe that they will then understand neither entrainment or meditation very well.

    Brain entrainment may be beneficial in different levels, but how deep your meditation goes is entirely up to you :) It just focuses on different brainwaves, but it's not like you are going to get less relaxed by using LF-10 instead of LF-1.
    It does have it's effect on what you want for meditation, increase your creativity, reduce stress, heal your body, so you better switch between the different tracks frequently for the full package :)
     
  12. Raven

    Raven Member

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    LifeFlow track structure

    John,

    For what it's worth, I've run each of the LifeFlow tracks and examined them with an audio spectrograph. They all start and end at the target frequency without any change up or down at either end of the track.

    ~R~
     
  13. John

    John Member

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    For what it's worth, I've run each of the LifeFlow tracks and examined them with an audio spectrograph. They all start and end at the target frequency without any change up or down at either end of the track.

    ~R~
    Thanks ~R~ interesting .I just want to check that I understand above - does above imply that there is no change in frequency between the beginning and the end --eg CD 4 will have 4Hz frequency throughout CD 7 will have 7Hz throughout?
    Thanks
    John
     
  14. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Correct, the track s do not change

    Yes, John, that's exactly what it means. LF-5 begins at 5Hz and remains at 5Hz all the way until it ends. It does not begin at a higher frequency and descend down until reaching 5Hz, nor does it climb back up to a higher frequency at the end of the track.

    ~Raven~
     
  15. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    That's amazing stuff Raven !

    Thank you for sharing that, I was wondering too !
    I wonder what astounding things happen in our brain when we meditate, and how LifeFlow affects our brain !
    At first, even tho I could feel it working, I was sceptical that it actually worked, call me a non-believer if you will. Gradually LifeFlow is deepening my meditation day by day, so I have to admit I was wrong...
     
  16. Raven

    Raven Member

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    LifeFlow track analysis - Brainwave entrainment facts

    Edwin,

    I haven't really given a lot of personal information about myself (I'm somewhat private,) but I've worked in recording studios since I was a teenager, so I have access to some fairly state of the art audio equipment. Someone commented in one post that I seemed to know a fair piece about audio, and that's the reason why. I do spend a great deal of time working with music and audio tracks so maybe some of my observations would be of interest to others.

    I was intrigued when I first ran the analysis on the LifeFlow tracks as well. Call me curious, I suppose, but I've run audio spectrographs on a number of entrainment products from various companies (out of courtesy I won't specify the names here,) because I always want to know if their claims are backed up by the technical analysis I perform. So here are a couple of interesting points I've found.

    First thing I noticed was that the LifeFlow tracks start and end right at their targeted entrainment frequency.

    No descending down, no climbing back up. They do fade in and out with the volume, but this does not in any way affect frequency of the entrainment waves themselves.

    Virtually every other track I've run through the spectrograph tells you in their literature that they begin in Beta, slowly descend down to the target frequency where they remain for a time, then start ascending again back to Beta.

    I've always found this a most curious thing since, as Michael has said, and as I've read in many places elsewhere, the human brain requires something like 8 minutes to entrain to a frequency, and it only works if that frequency remains constant.

    So my first question when I read the literature of other entrainment companies was...If you start at Beta and slowly and constantly decrease the frequency until you get to your target, then during that period of descent (or ascent at the end of the track,) how is the brain supposed to entrain to the tones because there was never a fixed frequency for it to get a handle on?

    Everything I've been able to read about entrainment suggests that entrainment only occurs if the brain has a fixed frequency to lock onto. Going back to the example Michael gave about that 17th century Dutch scientist (I forget his name) who discovered the phenomenon of entrainment by starting the pendulums of clocks swinging at different times, then came back later to find they had all synchronized and were swinging in unison, none of those clocks started at one rate and then sped up or slowed over a gradual period of time to give the other clocks a chance to gradually match them. They started off at one rate and they all ended up matching that exact same rate.

    To my mind that suggests that easing your way into entrainment or back out of entrainment is simply not necessary. You pick the target frequency and the brain zeros in on it.

    As for those entrainment tracks that use the wind up and wind down strategy, since they never give the brain a fixed entrainment wave to lock on to during those "winding" periods, that time would seem to be completely wasted. Your brain doesn't really begin entraining with them until they hit and hold at their target frequency.

    I'm guessing that's one of the reasons I've found the LifeFlow tracks to be so much more effective.

    They don't waste any time either at their beginning or end. They just immerse me immediately at the frequency I want to go to. As for gradually coming out, I know that for example, when I'm daydreaming, I'm in a state of predominantly Alpha waves. If something comes up and I need to return to full, normal Beta consciousness, I don't need something to gradually bring me out of the daydream over a 10 or 15 minute period. My brain just goes from Alpha to Beta immediately, and I'm right there where I need to be.

    So those wind up/down periods really do seem to be nothing but wasted filler time on most entrainment tracks.

    If I have a 30 minute track, and 10 minutes at the beginning is used to wind down from Beta to Alpha or another target frequency, and another 10 minutes is taken at the end of the track to go from the target frequency back up to Beta, that means 20 minutes of my 30 minute track were completely wasted.

    Worse yet, it means I only got 10 minutes at my target entrainment frequency. If it took the first 8 minutes of that for me to entrain that leaves me with a whole whopping 2 minutes of time at my target frequency. I get 2 minutes of time at frequency from a 30 minute track. That doesn't sound to me as if it would produce much of a result.

    The second thing I noticed, and you don't need expensive equipment to test this for yourself, is that I can see the LifeFlow track entrainment beats when I play the tracks on the spectrograph, but you can do the same on your home computer using a freeware program called Audacity.

    Audacity is a fairly basic audio manipulation program, not complex by professional standards but enough for a home user to get some good mileage out of. One of the features Audacity has is a set of decibel meters that show both the left and right channels of the track you're playing. These show up as a couple of green bars that pulsate with the intensity of the track. This isn't the playback volume these bars are measuring, which can go up or down depending on how I adjust the volume control. What these bars measure are the actual intrinsic intensity of the recorded sound waves themselves. What you see if you play a LifeFlow track is that these these intensity bars pulsate at regular, consistent intervals, which would be the monaural and isochronic waves you're looking at (binaurals wouldn't show up because they're a construct of the brain rather than an actual sound.)

    In any event, you can put on LF-10, for instance and see the bars pulsating at a steady rate. Then put on LF-4 or 2 or any of the lower tracks and you'll see the bars still pulsating, but at a noticeably slower rate. Even if you can't audibly hear the entrainment waves because you have the volume turned down too low, you can still see the intensity bars pulsating, telling you that the waves are in fact there.

    Interestingly, when I play tracks from other manufacturers I get no discernible patterns on the intensity bars. They just bounce all over the place seemingly at random. That may be the reason I've never gotten any particularly noteworthy results using other entrainment products. All those waves just seem jumbled together. How would my brain ever make sense of them? For that matter, I can't even honestly say that what I'm viewing in those tracks ARE entrainment waves. They might just as well be nothing more than the sounds of the waves or music or whatever else is used to "mask" the buried alleged entrainment waves because there is no consistent pattern to them. I know other entrainment companies use combinations of entrainment wave frequencies and that probably accounts for why there is no clear pattern of wave pulsations...that, and the fact that none of the others I've ever tested have used isochronic or monaural waves, but stick exclusively to binaurals, which, as I said earlier, wouldn't show up clearly on a program as rudimentary as Audacity.

    So when I ran across the LifeFlow series I was, to say the least, very skeptical. I thought to myself, "Here we go again! Another entrainment product that will just show me a jumble of sounds!" Then I tested them and to my very great surprise I found them to be unique and very different than any other track I'd ever tested before. So I started using the LF-10 track and noticed how much it improved my meditative practice.

    With the technical spectrographic proof before my eyes, and the personal experience verifying to me that the tracks really do what Michael says they do, I had no qualms at all about investing in the rest of the series.

    I know this was a book, Edwin, but I thought you and others might be interested in what I found since most people do not have access to the kind of testing equipment I'm fortunate enough to have at my disposal.

    ~Raven~
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  17. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Heh, decided to answer without the quote button, because we would have gone streight to page 4 :p

    It was me actually who commented on you knowing much about audio, and this is more than I could expect !
    Thanks for taking this much time for us, its an immensely interesting story !

    This prooves to us that LifeFlow is not just empty promises !
    Now we need to get a brain specialist of some sorts to research the brain during meditation :D

    Any of you here know anything about brains ? :cool:
     
  18. Ras

    Ras Member

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    oh! Thanks a *lot* for that post raven!

    That post deserves a place in the "
    Learn How You Can Benefit From Project Meditation!" next to the stuff michael posted :)

    I am not a very spiritual person, often requiring solid proof before beliving in something, so I really enjoyed getting some insight into how lifeflow works compared to other entrainment products. Once again, thanks for taking the time to make that post!
     
  19. Michael Mackenzie

    Michael Mackenzie Owner

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    Great post Raven

    I will include that in the reports as suggested.

    Michael :)
     
  20. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi Raven,
    thank you for taking the time to explain this information for all of us. I totally agree that your very clear explanation above would be well worth including in the section "Learn How You Can Benefit From Project Meditation!"
    I used one other companies materials for quite some time and never experienced the amazing results I have achieved through LifeFlow. It just goes to prove that Michael's products are genuinely created to help so many and his mission to help improve the lives of 1,000,000 people through meditation by the end of this year is such a worthwhile cause. I'm so excited to be a part of this wonderful community that is going to benefit people worldwide!! Happiness and joy to you and all the community :):):)
     

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