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A brief moment...

Discussion in 'Meditation Chatter Box' started by Edwin, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    I really love that story Keith. Thanks.

    I think the best way I can explain these moments of peacefulness is with the word comfortable. It just kinda feels...right, like everything is in its right place, equilibrium. I agree that it's alright to have some sort of wanting, otherwise no one would take this journey and all of us wouldn't be having this conversation.

    I think the wanting stops when you realize that you can't want what you already have. Is that a valid statement?

    Does the wanting have to do with truth? (which has been a recurring theme in my life as of late) I think it's alright to want truth, but the truth is what you already are, in this moment, at this time. All you have to do is look at it...at least, that's the way I like to think of it.

    I feel very strongly about this stuff, like I never have before in my entire life. Thanks all for sharing the wonderful experiences.

    Mitch
     
  2. Maitreya

    Maitreya Member

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    Keith, I loved that essay. It really captures the essence of appreciation. But I feel slightly different.

    I can't help feeling that more important than appreciation for the world is apathy toward it, renunciation of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't particularly believe the world is such a great place. I get that little nudging voice inside me saying, Don't worry about what the world does to you. It isn't real. I've felt that way since I was a toddler.

    I would watch the stars at night and think, "I'm not supposed to be here. I don't belong here, this isn't my world, and I wanna go home." I didn't know if I considered myself as being from somewhere else, but I knew something wasn't right since I was four.

    In fact, I still haven't figured out exactly why I've never been accepted in society—which is another part of it—or fit in with any group....Really the Buddhist concept is the closest I've ever come.

    I do appreciate, in a sense. But, being alone and bored as often as I am, I find myself thinking about the world a lot, and trying to make sense of it. To me, the world is like a dream. I treated sleep as a blessing merely because my sleeping dreams are usually more pleasant, and that's the problem with the world.

    We treat it as our friend, or as our enemy. We seek out pleasure, and fight pain. But our only freedom would lie in detaching ourselves from both of these things. When you are at war with yourself, you can never achieve peace. It seems that WANTING to be enlightened isn't bad, except it could be a fetter if you imagine it incorrectly. If you think it is something separate.

    For example, I have no enemies, and (quite honestly) no friends either. I'm not actually a "dredge" of society, I just don't really....click...with anyone. People had never been terribly special to me, because though it's extremely corny, I have a compassionate love for them all, equally. I'm certainly not perfect, but I've always been quick to love and I don't consider anyone more important than another.

    So Mitch, in a way I agree with your point. But such a point deserves much more observation. To me, there is no having; no possession at least. People worry about damaging something that is "mine," and I disagree with them. People ask me my reaction to someone's taking something that is mine, and I can't continue the conversation socially.

    When it comes down to it, enlightenment in the Buddhist sense at least, is Awakening, being Awake—seeing the world for what it really is. It's like having a Lucid Dream, because perception of this world is just as false and biased as a dream.

    I believe that only with an unbiased view of the world, free of attachments and desires and possession, can we ever hope to wake up and see the world for what it really is. I think that's why we have little "glimpses of reality" when we rid ourselves temporarily of desire, or stop caring.

    If that makes sense?
     
  3. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Maitreya,

    I know what you mean, however it doesn't seem to feel right when reading it.
    What I felt last monday was a deep unconditional real Love for everything in the world, good or bad was meaningless. Everything is a manifestation of this deep power, it is born in it and dissolves back into it when it's time in the material world is up.

    You seem to have labeled the Universe in which you exist as "wrong" for you, and have placed yourself outside of it, or maybe I am reading it wrong, if so, sorry about that.

    It feels like a big waste to turn your back to the only experience you will ever have. Your existance as a human being is not an accident or a manifestation of a random universe, meaningless in it's rise and fall. You are supposed to experience it, not push it away, or at least that is how I see it.
    If you experience boredom and solitude, you are doing something wrong, that I do know. Even by yourself, by choice or whatever reason, if you are not feeling a spark of joy in everything you do, there is a lot that can be gained and, if you choose to follow that road, a promise of great things coming your way !
     
  4. Maitreya

    Maitreya Member

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    Oh, yes, of course! I know what you're saying. :) I'm sorry it came out like that.

    I was off base saying not to appreciate the world, and I completely agree. What I meant wasn't that I am "lonely" and "tired of being alone"; but that I am simply alone with nothing to do—which for me is necessary.

    It has always been my opinion that there is no RIGHT or WRONG. Everything that happens happens for a reason, and since my being alone results in contemplating the world, it can't be bad.

    And I don't believe this is the only worldly experience we'll ever have. Despite that, I don't mean "turning our backs" on the world, because that suggests making it our enemy. The problem to me isn't appreciating the world, and loving it, but rather the problem is becoming attached to it and feeling as if you NEED to have it.

    There's no need to apologize, I did not say it nearly as well as I should have.

    Appreciation is part of contentment to simply exist, and appreciation in itself isn't attachment. What I mean is not that seeing beauty in things is a fetter to enlightenment. All I mean is that, from these several statements that abandoning desire gave a "glimpse of reality", caring more about pleasure than pain is.

    I didn't mean to say I abandon or demonize anything. Sorry for the misunderstanding ;). I don't feel boredom, and I don't demonize being alone. I don't make pain my enemy, but neither do I make pleasure my friend. It isn't abandoning the world, so to speak. As was said, If we are not our bodies, or our thoughts, or our emotions...? And what, then, is the world?

    Is the world our desire for it, or is the world itself? Can we not abandon our desires and hatreds (including those for pleasurable experiences versus painful ones) without abandoning the world.

    Like Siddhartha Gautama said: "Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

    Sorry, too, if that came out preachy. I hope what I said is less.....opposing now. :)


    [Edit] Oh, about labeling the Universe as "wrong for me," not at all. What I would have meant by thinking I don't belong here is not that I shouldn't be here, but that this isn't the only place I've ever been, or only life I've ever lived.

    I think saying that was a childhood manifestation of my desire to return to that "source" you mentioned, where I felt I should be. I've always wanted to feel the way I do whenever I exit metta meditation, the way we feel when we're free.

    For what I'm saying to be understood I guess you have to know I believe in reincarnation.

    Maybe it's spiritual babble, but that's what I was saying. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    That is the first time that I am actually glad I misunderstood someone ;)

    good to hear ! :cool:
     
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Since my last experience I have had 2 more.

    One was last monday (exactly a week after the first one, go figure) and the next one the next day.

    The one on monday was more intense than the first one, and lasted longer ( from dinner to bed-time ) and the one next day was more a lasting yet less strong feeling from monday evening. At the end of tuesday it was almost gone, but I now can, for short moments, just by focussing on the feeling of my body, bring similar experiences back. They don't last as I still allow thought to take over, but it is getting easyer with every attempt.

    About that, the strange thing is that I have a new understanding of "living in the Now".
    I thought it was a matter of focus, of constantly attempting to keep up with time. This took a lot of energy.

    I now feel that it is more the absence of "not-living-in-the-now" that is important instead of constantly keeping the focus on the now. Or maybe the absence of thought instead of "not-living-in-the-now", but before that too took effort. I strained to keep the mind quiet, but now the absence of thought seems to be a byproduct that happens naturally whenever I focus on the body/breath.
    Everything clicks with that first moment of "enbrightenment" as Darren likes to call it ;) all that took lots of effort before now comes naturally.

    I hope I am making sense...:p I feel silly writing this down.
     
  7. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    Edwin I'm so happy for you, making these spiritual strides forward! :) :) :)
    When you say, I now feel that it is more the absence of "not-living-in-the-now" that is important instead of constantly keeping the focus on the now., what do you mean? Is it that you're less caught in the phenomena of now - whatever is happening in the moment - and just being the witness (as some have mentioned before)? Or is it something else?

    I find that I can get very aware of what's happening from moment to moment but it goes deeper when I turn awareness to itself so that the thoughts drop away, along with the body... but I'm thinking that's not what you're describing. And also you said you're focusing on the breath and body field., so maybe that doesn't compute!

    Anyway, I'm excited for you. It makes me think of how life conspires to make us reach pure consciousness. If we didn't have our financial worries, relationship troubles, sufferings from losses, we'd all be lying on a beach somewhere with our families, playing volleyball and drinking long cool drinks. And then perhaps we'd never have enough motivation to put in maximum effort and arrive at pure seeing! :p

    Mind you, with temperatures today at -25C the beach idea sounds pretty enticing :rolleyes: Volleyball anyone?

    Wishing you the best!
    Bhavya

    As an aside, I was reading your conversation with Darren on the LOA and then went to UTube to a radio interview with Gregg Bradden on the Divine Matrix. (Many parts) What's relevant is Gregg's scientific explanation of why the LOA works...not that he's specifically talking about the LOA as such. Scientists have discovered an intelligent field of energy that bathes all of creation. Some call it the Field, he calls it the Divine Matrix, and it's fascinating, how it all ties together ... how science is finally catching up with the yogis. :D

    May all our divinely inspired dreams come true :):):)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Yes, you understand me perfectly actually ! It's just that ! Staying in the Now happens effortlessly now for me because of that... and yet, as you say, there is something more to it. But I just can't describe what :( It's exactly that which I tried to figure out with my mind, and failed to understand because of that, but I can't describe now that it's there. Being the witness points towards it, but "just being" or "isness" as Tolle describes it does the same, it points towards it, but isn't enough to describe the increadible fullness of the experience.

    It's kind of like the description of a "hole". In science, a "hole" doesn't exist. A hole is not solid matter, so it doesn't exist to them.
    Yet, our minds have no trouble with naming something that doesn't exist.
    The best way to describe a hole would be "nothing with something around it"
    In much the same way, we labeled it "enlightenment" or "enbrightenment", but we can't fully describe what the [censored] it actually is.
    That's the whole problem, it can't be explained logically. Focusing on the body/breath is not the goal, simply "my doorway into". It might be something entirely else for you that is the trigger to the same experience, and the experience itself might be different for you too. I do know somehow that I am just brushing it, that this can go infinately deeper.
    :D Isn't life funny sometimes ?

    That doesn't change the fact that the life you describe sounds really :cool:
    Thanks for your pointer and wishes, I wish you the very same. I wish everybody could feel this, wouldn't that be wonderfull ?
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    The Stink of Zen

    I am now starting to realise what Zen means with "The Stink of Zen".

    Reading back my last post, it is very easy to think that these experiences have "enlightened" me.
    I myself have felt less burdened ( i.e. "lighter" ) for about a week.
    I was really keen on my progress, and thought that I was almost there.

    When reading this back, the extreme number of "I's" should have warned me.

    In Zen "the stink of Zen" refers to people who have experienced short moments of enlightenment, or Satori, or "lifting of the veil".
    When these moments are not deep enough, the ego doesn't cease to exist. It becomes dorment, only to show it's face again when the memory of the moment recides. These people will describe themselves too soon and early as "masters" or "guru's" and should be the ones to avoid when seeking guidance with a master.

    As you can see, I have read quite a lot about it the last couple of days.
    This is what happened to me. I thought of myself as "there" yet.
    And now I feel homesick to the moments I experienced more than a week ago. And that is exactly the feeling that is keeping me from the next moment in my opinion.

    The total elimination of ego is oftan described as "death before you die" in Zen, and in a way, that is exactly it, it doesn't exist anymore afterwords.
    My ego is still alive, and kicking I might add ;)

    Back to meditation again ( or back to the drawing board ).
     
  10. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    I'm glad to see that your really moving forward in your progress. It's always a weird feeling when you realize something important about yourself or that you've been doing something wrong. I'm glad your sharing this stuff because it's important to keep it in mind as I go further in my progress and closer to where you are now. As long as I remember the impermanence of everything, I'll be okay.

    Here is a poem I wrote that was inspired by this thread:

    The Persistence of Insanity


    Nothing is falling,
    there is no movement, no time.
    We’re all just stuck in this persistent insanity,
    grasping at something, anything,
    that isn’t now.

    I’ve decided to be a more truthful person.
    Not to gain respect from anyone else.
    Not to die as a legend or a saint or a wise person.
    Not so I see myself placed higher in the eyes of my fellow man,
    but to finally glide safely into that black abyss
    and find myself flying in interstellar space,
    where no man can be real
    and where nothing resides.

    But I ask myself, how can nothing reside?
    Is there a place, deep down,
    where there is a pure and untouchable essence,
    that has no possessions, no thoughts, no feelings?
    An entity that is not real
    yet allows the space for everything to be?

    Awareness.

    I want to see it,
    that is my persistence.
    The same tick tock in my head that tells time
    wants to see something to know its real,
    it has too,
    so it can say “I have this” or “I want that”,
    but never really be fulfilled if and when
    that day decides to fall onto my lap.

    So I’ve decided to be more truthful.
    To stop the rebound of lies that enter the abyss
    and get thrown back at me.
    To stop running away from nothing
    and find the courage to be the I that is me.
    To finally turn around and take that plunge into darkness,
    cause hey,


    life is just too boring not to try.


    Mitch
     
  11. Montana Keith

    Montana Keith Member

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    "Writings Brought to Mind"

    Hi Edwin & Mitch,
    Your exchange about the "I," or ego, and your excellent poem Mitch--thanks so much for sharing it--brought to mind the following writings by two of my favorite writers, Thomas Merton and Stewart Edward White. I hope they speak to you. Take care. --Keith :)

    As long as there is an “I”

    But as long as there is this sense of separation, this awareness of distance and difference between ourselves and God, we have not yet entered into the fullness of contemplation.

    As long as there is an "I" that is the definite subject of itself and of its contemplation, an "I" that can possess a certain "degree of spirituality," then we have not yet passed over the Red Sea, we have not yet "gone out of Egypt." We remain in the realm of multiplicity, activity, incompleteness, striving and desire. The true inner self, the true indestructible and immortal person, the true "I" who answers to a new and secret name known only to himself and to God, does not "have" anything, even "contemplation." This "I" is not the kind of subject that can amass experience, reflect on them, reflect on himself, for this "I" is not the superficial and empirical self that we know in our everyday life.

    It is a great mistake to confuse the person (the spiritual and hidden self, united with God) and the ego, the exterior, empirical self, the psychological individuality who forms a kind of mask for the inner and hidden self. This outer self is nothing but an evanescent shadow. Its biography and its existence both end together at death. Of the inmost self, there is neither biography nor end. The outward self can "have" much, "enjoy" much, "accomplish" much, but in the end all its possessions, joys and accomplishments are nothing, and the outer self is, itself, nothing: a shadow, a garment that is cast off and consumed by decay. (pp. 285-286)

    . . . Our reality, our true self, is hidden in what appears to us to be nothingness and void. What we are not seems to be real, what we are seems to be unreal. We can rise above this unreality, and recover our hidden identity. And that is why the way to reality is the way of humility which brings us to reject the illusory self and accept the "empty" self that is "nothing" in our eyes and in the eyes of men, but is our true reality in the eyes of God: for this reality is "in God" and "with Him" and belongs entirely to Him. Yet of course it is ontologically distinct from Him, and in no sense part of the divine nature or absorbed in that nature.

    This inmost self is beyond the kind of experience which says "I want,” "I love," "I know," "I feel." It has its own way of knowing, loving and experiencing which is a divine way and not a human one, a way of identity, of union, of "espousal," in which there is no longer a separate psychological individuality drawing all good and all truth toward itself, and thus loving and knowing for itself. Lover and Beloved are "one spirit."

    Therefore, as long as we experience ourselves in prayer as an "I" standing on the threshold of the abyss of purity and emptiness that is God, waiting to "receive something" from Him, we are still far from the most intimate and secret unitive knowledge that is pure contemplation.

    From our side of the threshold this darkness, this emptiness, looks deep and vast—and exciting. There is nothing we can do about entering in. We cannot force our way over the edge, although there is no barrier.

    But the reason is perhaps that there is also no abyss.

    There you remain, somehow feeling that the next step will be a plunge and you will find yourself flying in interstellar space.

    When the next step comes, you do not take the step, you do not know the transition, you do not fall into anything. You do not go anywhere, and so you do not know the way by which you got there or the way by which you come back afterward. You are certainly not lost. You do not fly. There is no space, or there is all space: it makes no difference.

    The next step is not a step.

    You are not transported from one degree to another.

    What happens is that the separate entity that is you apparently disappears and nothing seems to be left but a pure freedom indistinguishable from infinite Freedom, love identified with Love. Not two loves, one waiting for the other, striving for the other, seeking for the other, but Love Loving in Freedom. . . . If you like, you do not have an experience, you become Experience: but that is entirely different, because you no longer exist in such away that you can reflect on yourself or see yourself having an experience, or judge what is going on, if it can be said that something is going on that is not eternal and unchanging and an activity so tremendous that it is infinitely still.

    And here all adjectives fall to pieces. Words become stupid. Everything you say is misleading—unless you list every possible experience and say: “That is not what it is.” “That is not what I am talking about.”

    Metaphor has now become hopeless altogether. Talk about “darkness” if you must: But the thought of darkness is already too dense and too course. Anyway, it is no longer darkness. You can speak of “emptiness” but that makes you think of floating around in space: and this is nothing spatial.

    What it is, is freedom. It is perfect love. It is pure renunciation. It is the fruition of God.
    (New Seeds of Contemplation, pp. 287-290)


    With Folded Wings

    "Vibrations are life, and waves are progress in life. The thing that is made by vibrations moves within the limits of its being, and also carries forward--through itself and its contacts--the wave.

    "Waves lift and fall, as well as move forward. And the particles that comprise them are also elevated and depressed, as well as carrying through themselves the forward movement. The rise and fall is in itself rhythmic and harmonious. Without it no forward movement is possible. This is a universal law--applying to the mighty and on-sweeping tide of cosmic evolution, and alike to the little ripples in the tiny pools that make up individual affairs. The sea gull that exults upward on the shoulder of the rising wave, too often, instead of falling in glory of grandeur into the trough, plunges from its height, darkened with despair; because it has not the vision to see nor the perception to feel the mighty, slow-gathering force that will lift it again to another moment of high-tossing, sun-glinted height.

    "THIS IS A UNIVERSAL LAW.

    "Know that. Understand that. Accept the recession into the quiet hollow, into the slow sucking trough, as part of the great rhythm--without which there would be stagnation. Learn to take it as the repose period, the gathering period, the period in which the mighty forces that lift the wave upward, are quietly, powerfully coming in. If you could only once feel this, visualize it, never again could you be uneasy, depressed, low-spirited, discouraged, merely because of the natural, inevitable, necessary ebb after the flow. Never again would you worry because in this or that your powers of today are not your powers of yesterday, that your wings are folded, that a darkness seems to have closed you about. Accept the quietude, accept the ebb; enjoy it, as all harmonious things should be enjoyed. Rest in confidence, with your folded wings, knowing that it is the Law; that soon beneath your breast the stir of gathering forces must be felt. Sure that in the progress that the law ordains you must once more be swept upward to the glittering crest, whence all horizons are far, and the whistling winds of eternity tempt again your outspread wings.

    "As I said, this is a universal law. By it you can measure your smallest moods. By it you can measure your greatest griefs and despairs. Carry it always with you. For its fitting is to all occasion."
    (With Folded Wings by Stewart Edward White)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  12. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    Two great pieces of writing, Keith, thanks.

    Mitch
     
  13. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    Ah Edwin, the pain of the human condition, "wanting" something different from what is. :(

    But Edwin, you are doing really, really well! Think about how far you've come! You are experiencing deep states and you have a great deal of insight into their meaning. Then think of the Buddha. How many years did he study with masters and meditate non-stop, starving himself, living as a hermit, experimenting with various paths until he discovered the middle way and finally achieved enlightenment? How many lifetimes did he strive, giving selfless service, helping others?

    I think you should trust your path and enjoy it as it unfolds. You're a householder with young children. And you're a business man. All that is part of your karma yoga, your selfless service. And that's as important as the time you spend meditating. All the struggles that you experience, the frustrations on and off your cushion, are preparing you, allowing you to gain wisdom for who knows what will come for you, down the road. I think the road to pure enlightenment for most of us has to include these elements so that we gradually develop selflessness - the erosion of our ego. As we do that and gain wisdom, we can help others because we've been there, done that.

    I do sympathise. I'm the same way...I want instant enlightenment. But WHAT THE BLEEP IS ENLIGHTENMENT ANYWAY? I think most people have no idea what it means. I include myself in that category. It's indescribable. Beyond words, concepts. I'm sure you, like me and many others here, have read up on it. But what is it really? Why do we want it so badly? Do we think that once we reach that state of being all our problems go away?

    I am certain there are different stages of enlightenment. Some are like Christ or the Buddha, and some just have insight, are just no longer identified with the ego. They've discovered 'emptiness' but somehow they aren't full blown like Amma who just flows with unending love and compassion, wisdom, grace. The power of Amma's presence is greater than anyone or anything I've ever known. I've watched her giving darshan to 20,000 people in 24 hours, without getting up, greeting the 20,000th person with as much love as the first. I've seen her transcend the pain in her body because she wants to keep giving. Of course she has the siddhis - clairvoyance and all that - but that's not enlightenment. Lots of people have those powers and they are often very egotistical.

    So what are the qualities? How do we know that we or someone else is enlightened? Certainly compassion has to be there. And humility. There's no break in the flow of total giving. And most of all there is love. Pure love that sees the pure being in all, even in the most mistaken, messed up individual. And out of that love, the compassion to reach out and help all others reach that state.

    Oops! I meant to ask you, Edwin, what you think enlightenment is and instead got carried away with my own thoughts! I suppose writing is one way of sorting out ideas for me. :rolleyes:

    But I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject, and anyone else's as well

    Namaste

    Bhavya
     
  14. Bhavya

    Bhavya Member

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    Mitch and Keith, beautiful writing! Thanks for sharing :):):)
     
  15. filly33

    filly33 Member

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    I find that enlightenment is coming to me in stages. Though, my definition of/thoughts about enlightenment are very scattered, and I like explaining it more through personal experiences. Besides, I've never read a good definition of enlightenment, just good stories about enlightenment, so I'll explain mine in that vein.

    I find that judgments are the sole and only cause of suffering.

    A judgment can lead to inner resistance, which can lead to lying to yourself and others. They can hold you prisoner, make you believe things that are not truth and so your vision is clouded. They can ruin families, friendships and keep you lying to yourself and everyone else until you bury a hole so deep that you can't reach up and pull yourself out. The hole is the past, and the past cannot be changed. Your stuck there in the exact same situation, all the time. This was the situation that I was stuck and have been stuck in for a few months now. I couldn't find the way out.

    Then, the aha moment.

    I was watching this really crappy movie with my friends (The Day The Earth Stood Still, if your wondering) and there was this interesting line that caught my attention. It went along the lines of "when your physical body dies you don't really die, the universe wastes nothing". At that moment I realized something that I had taken in loose strides my entire life. The universe wastes no particles, so when I die there is not one particle that will be gone. Suddenly, death didn't seem so menacing.

    This stunned me, opened my eyes, gave me hope. I felt open to the vastness of the universe and all it's particles linked to me by this moment, yet somehow I was still in that hole, looking through a small pinpoint of the sky above me. My ego kept talking and my judgments didn't stop. Like you guys I wanted instant gratification. Enlightenment in a can. Though, it's just a can of worms. There was no way out. I was constantly worrying, thinking, why can't I get out? Why do I feel the way I do? Why is it that I'm stuck in this mind when the entire universe is out there waiting for me? Why is it that every time I seem to be getting closer to freedom something new keeps on digging me deeper? My aha moment had failed me.

    The hole is my ego. The voice that tells me, I'm trapped inside this body, I can't get out. It was my ego keeping me inside this body, inside this life, this story, this hole. And then the weight of it all came crashing down. I'm in this hole, this life, this story, this ego.

    Shit.

    I thought "Why am I just realizing this now? It's practically all I've been told since first reading about the ego". I mean, I've feared my ego. I've loathed my ego. I've ran from my ego. I've toyed with my ego. But I've never embraced my ego. Loved it. It's not going anywhere. I'm still in this hole. I'll always have my ego. That's a weird thought, cause when I started this journey I read that I could surpass the ego. Block it out. At least, that's what I took from it. So far, it's been a sad realization that I cannot.

    But then my ego is not me, it's just judgments, interpretations. Internal influence of the external world. Interesting. I've got this circle of influences on my life that just keep going around and around and around. An unstoppable force. So when I judge my ego I dig myself deeper into my ego. Thus, judgments are fueling my ego and my pain. The only way out is through acceptance.



    I can live with that.

    And that is where I am right now. Living with my ego. There is no such thing as no pain when you cut your hand. You live thru pain. Instead of taking the journey of enlightenment to escape the ego, take the journey with the ego. Even though your ego is not you, it has to be with you, because if it isn't than its against you. I think the latter will always hold you back, in that sense. Don't judge yourself, or your just continuing the journey deeper into that hole. I think enlightenment can only be explored with the ego. At first I feared this idea because I thought if I accepted my ego it would take over, that I would become something I'm not. But it's much different than that. It's more like the cloud analogy that I got from Michael's meditation course. The thoughts just float on by and I don't care what they are. Accepting my ego has been a big part in my success.

    Here is a great site that I found helpful: Take Responsibility For Your Emotions

    That's all I got. Wow this is a jumbled mess, and extremely biased but I didn't mean to come off that way. I'm just explaining my journey. I can't seem to put anything into words. There is so much more I'd like to explain but I just can't.

    It's weird. Tonight during meditation I found less mind chatter and found it easy to just let everything....happen. It's like I didn't care. Acceptance, what I've seen myself say over and over and over, is finally setting in. At one point the voice inside my head was a faint whisper. That's never happened before!

    Anyways, this isn't really a definition of enlightenment, or even enlightenment in its contents, but all definitions of it are in that hole with the ego anyway. I'll try to sum up what I've been saying.

    You're not whole without your ego (yes! Double meaning!! I didn't mean for that either). It's a lot easier to live with your thoughts than trying to run away from them. Easier said than done, I know, but exercises like finding the good in all the bad can be extremely helpful.

    Wow, this is long. Btw, when I say you, I mean it in a general sense. (I usually hate using you, but this site brings it out in me:p)

    Mitch
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  16. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    Wow guys !

    every post made since my last one has been nothing short of amazing !:eek:

    Thank you guys so much for sharing, Keith, Mitch and Bhavya, You bring exactly what I need and more !

    What do I think enlightenment is ?

    Good question Bhavya, and in a way, a Koan ( question that is impossible to answer, used in Zen to bypass the mind in order to achieve enlightenment, like " can you clap in one hand " ).

    No matter what the mind thinks enlightenment is, it can't be that, and can only be wrong, because enlightenment is no-mind.
    I wrote in another post that expectation with regards to meditation is something to avoid, and the same goes for enlightenment.

    The ego is however still very present in me, and I have no excuse for it, so I am going to write down my expectations towards enlightenment anyway ;):

    I expect enlightenment to be:

    1. the way to be completely free from fear ( including fear of death ), anxiety, worries and troubled moods. This is the first reason why I want to become enlightened. I am fed up with the way I feel most of the time, of "suffering" as Buddhism calls it.

    2. a way to peace for/with myself and ( eventually ) for the entire world.

    3. an immensely deeper insight into God/Universe and the force from which we come and to which we will return. Alongside with it I expect to "see things as they really are" as so oftan is described within Buddhism.

    4. the best state to be in, and thus the best way to give to others, both spiritually as well as financially ( as I expect the LoA to work better that way too ). The benefit should be for everyone I can touch, with body and/or emotion ( like you guys ).


    When the moment will come Mitch, I have no idea just like you. Zen acknowledges that it takes a special message that will "click" in resonance only with you, and to nobody else. One of the Zen masters whose name became one to be remembered through history achieved enlightenment by slapping his master in the face ( truth be told, that same master was continually hitting him with a stick every time he gave the wrong answer ).
    It can only happen in the moment, or "Now" as nothing happens in the future or past, but that doesn't have to mean that it can happen now. It can happen in tomorrow's now, or next year.
    "When the student is ready, the Master will appear" sais Zen. That Master doesn't have to be a guru, but can indeed, like with you, be a quote from a movie. Another Zen master got enlightened when he overheard this conversation at the market:

    "Butcher, give me a pound of your best meat"
    "All my meat is the best, there is only the best meat"
    ( from memory from one of Eckhart Tolle's books )

    At this moment financial worries are extremely strong, because I have to have a lot of money before next friday. The LoA should work when it is most needed, and it is very needed at this time.
    I wonder if, had I allready been enlightened, the problem would have disappeared, or just the way I look at it...

    Either way it would have caused no suffering.
     
  17. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    The Gamma tracks and my brief moment.

    I have asked for permission from Michael to make public something I have been dying to tell you guys ever since I started this thread.

    Most everybody here has seen or reacted to the mail Michael has sent around concerning the "Gamma" tracks.

    I was actually one of the lucky ones to receive the 2 Gamma tracks halfway through December as a Beta-Tester.
    I have used them twice every day ever since.

    Now I will not go as far as say to you guys that the experiences I have written about can only be contributed to the Gamma tracks, for one because I think this is impossible to prove, but also because I think my persiverance in doing daily meditation for more than a year, the right mindset, and making a vision of the goal ( or goal in progress ) generally known as "enlightenment" inside my head should not be forgotten.

    I am however convinced that, by studying on enlightenment, meditation, having used LifeFlow for a year, and now the 2 LifeFlow Gamma tracks, must have all in one way or another aided me in getting to where I am now.

    If you are lucky enough to have received one of the tracks, you will soon know what I am talking about !

    Also a quick note:
    To the left of all my posts is a nice picture of a very ugly guy with pink sunglasses, with a text beneath it saying "Moderator".
    Some people might be tempted to think that this means that I am in some way affiliated with Project-Meditation, receive payment in any way, or get bonuses. This is not the case ( for convenience sake considering the chance to be a Beta-Tester for Gamma tracks not a bonus, even tho it is ;) ).

    I just very much enjoy reading about meditation experiences from people, help wherever I can, and thus help spread joy and peace in the world.

    Still, having said all this, I would urge everybody here who is serious about their quest to enlighten their life, to give the Gamma tracks a try.
    I myself consider them to be a very effective tool in achieving all of the above all the way back to where I started this thread.

    I wish everybody here the same and more of what I have felt the last couple of weeks :)
     
  18. Maribo

    Maribo Member

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    Emotional de-conditioning, getting beyond like or dislike, into "don't care", is part of enlightenment. While still meditating you care - otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. As Ken Wilber put it: "Enlightenment is an accident, and meditation only makes you more accident-prone."

    The receipe? Don't care - and you won't care afterwards either! It can happen only when you forget about YourSelf, having all the attention focused on something else, or sleeping, or being in some altered state of consciousness - possibly induced through meditation.

    Good luck! Or, being an accident, should I say "Bad luck!" ? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  19. chris063

    chris063 Member

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    Hi Edwin,

    I've been either offline or on dial-up for a few weeks now so have many posts to catch up on, but I really wanted to a) congratulate you on managing to keep your secret so well!!! and b) to thank you for sharing your experiences with everyone :)

    The guy in the pink sunglasses seems like a very fun, kind and caring person to me :):):)
     
  20. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    SHHHHH !!

    That would be the c) I have been trying to keep a secret :D

    Thank you Chris ! You are not so bad yourself ! ;)
     

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