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a big dilemma, help!

Discussion in 'Mind, Body & Spirit' started by chris-da-fur, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    Hello All!

    So I have been wondering about something for awhile now without really being able to figure it out, So I was hoping someone on here could help me out!

    I am confused about the combining of goals, achieving greatness in our "life situations" and our general ambitions for life with The Path, finding out the true nature of the mind, etc. It seems contradictory to pursue goals and such when a quieted mind seems to be more of an action-less, peaceful state.

    I believe finding out the true nature of the mind is the most important thing for me to do, but I think one big thing that is holding me back is my "life situation". I feel like that is really important and I don't want to mess it up by seeing the Truth 24/7 and losing a lot of ambitions and such. Like, Tolle sat on a bench with nothing for a year or two, yes he was happy, but that kind of scares me.

    So I guess I fear by pursuing goals and external accomplishment I'll never be able to totally dis-identify with the mind, and on the other hand if I do totally dis-identify with the mind I won't pursue a successful, comfortable life situation.

    Can anyone shed some insight on this dilemma? I gotta pretzel in my head here!

    -Chris
     
  2. pollyanna

    pollyanna Moderator

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    Hi Chris, I completely understand - two years sitting on a park bench would scare the hech out of me too :eek: I'm sure it was nice for Eckhart though as he was in a very bad state prior to this.

    I truly believe you can benefit from both meditation and goal setting and what's more, I believe the two together create an amazing synergy. Through meditating regularly with LifeFlow you can become aware of both your and others ego. The ego or map of reality or belief system can change if you allow it to do, to a healthier belief system that serves you and others better.

    I really believe that becoming aware of the ego is the key to being able to observe the emotions and thoughts unemotionally and as you let go of negative and supressed emotions, you'll create the space for creative ideas to flow.
    I also believe that thoughts become things and we create our own present. Whatever we focus on and think and feel about, we bring about. The universe simply obeys.

    Eckhart states somewhere that it's normal to have goals, as long as you are not forsaking the present moment by pining away for all the things you want and I have found this to be very true.

    Hope this is of help and I wish you much peace, joy and abundance :) :) :)
     
  3. Panthau

    Panthau Member

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    I have a similar situation atm. Its all about letting go... its all an illusion, and as long as we want to "achieve" or "get" something, its probably even harder to let go. We all have to "function", especially when we┬┤re having kids which depend on us.

    I found out for me, how to let go of really everything. Its then like im nothing, just my existence... the problem with that is, that i forget about everything, like appointments, what i wanted to do next and so on. This is quite scary for me, but thats in its nature. I think the clearer we are within, the more we remember what we wanted to do when we are in our mind again. We can choose the times when we want to be still and let go of everything, and the times when we are in our mind and want to "do" something.

    So what i wanted to say is, that i dont think its necessary to give everything up, youre still there... its just the point of reference which is changing. At least thats what my intuition tells me.
     
  4. GilesC

    GilesC Member

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    We all have needs to be met, families to feed, bills to pay etc. It is absolutely fine to have goals and to persue stillness. One just has to be aware that the goals we set are done in a selfless manner i.e. not at the expense of others. Once we set goals that are at the expense of others this is our ego grasping for our false self. Set your goals with honesty and to meet the present need and remain present while you do this. When you act this way, you will find there is also time to for stillness and to meet your needs for meditation/stillness practice.

    Hugs

    Giles
     
  5. Midnight

    Midnight Member

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    I've thought about this too...

    How care free you must be if you spend your days sitting in parks in pure bliss?...yet in society today, that thought frightens us for some reason...we've been conditioned to behave that we have to reach a goal for us to be happy.

    Our core being contains everything in the goals we seek. Joy and peace. I read that on urbanmonk.net and that's what helped me disidentify myself with goals I was pursuing. Why was I doing that? Inevitable to GET something. Why did I want that thing? Because then I would be happy. That's the message being relayed throughout our brains.

    But if you can be joyful and peaceful in the present moment, there is no need to pursue a goal with desperate, selfish intentions which inevitably leads to worry, anxiety, and stress. You can pursue goals to improve life situations, but not to gain some sort of happiness, or self, from it.

    So moving towards a goal is possible while still being in touch with your true being. Your goals don't become you. They don't take you over. You can enjoy every step of the way.
     
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Member

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    This is the whole seeming duality that people have trouble with. The contradiction in this particular example as you have given us, is in your image of "action-less, peaceful state".
    Does a Sage become catatonic for the rest of his life ? Of course not, unless he chooses to like Tolle did.
    You think that "action-less, peaceful state" means sitting still, not moving, but even when you are completely motionless you still breath, your heart pumps, your blood flows, your food digests...

    No, "action-less, peaceful state" is the state you are in while you pursue goals, earn money, go to a party, bump your toe to the leg of your chair and let out a good curse.
    You are right ;)
    Even sages have to eat, earn money, live life. Your "life situation" is what is, having realised the Self or not will not change that.
    And usually, after realisation you are able to live more carefree, less troubled by worries, or emotions that you would now lable as negative. Chances are you will become better at your work after realisation, earn more money, people will start noticing you for no obvious reason...
    Maybe he was a lazy git as well. Who knows ? It is different with everybody. You are not Eckhart Tolle, so why worry about his experiences ?
    For instance, Jeff Foster, also a teacher in non-duality realised the Self while waiting for the bus to go to work.
    When they asked him what happened next, he said "Nothing, I got on the bus and went to work"
    Just keep trying to realise the Self. As soon as the truth hits, you will understand it all. And until then, live life as you think is best for you. After all, you are your Self allready, you just think you aren't. Your life won't dramaticaly change after realisation. :)
     
  7. sebwallace

    sebwallace Member

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    My advice

    Hi Chris,
    I agree with Edwin. You can take the option in life to leave your 'life situation' and pursue your true nature of mind but this would take a lot of purpose for you to do that. I am guessing you don't have your back up against the wall to do that, where as Tolle did. Tolle was experiencing a difficult time in his life so that led him to find his true nature by being mindfull for a few years. In times of great desperation people do great or desperate things.

    In your situation you can use a quietened mind and an 'action-less' approach to make effort, effortless. The mind has an endless chatter - on average you have 60,000 conscious thoughts a day and that scatters your focus, causing you to think incoherently. When you practice being mindful and being present it conditions your mind to be more coherent. You think clearer and much more effectively.

    Do you find that when you are doing something you do not enjoy it seems like a lot of effort to do it? When you do something you do enjoy its effortless. A lot of people describe life as being a lot of effort, because they do not enjoy it. So to enjoy it they set goals like; a new job, a vacation, increased social connection or even enlightenment. Goal setting is the part of a process to grow in life in whatever direction you feel most called towards. Of course it is suggested to not get hooked on material things because that causes you to be dependent on external things for your happiness.

    I hope this has helped :)

    Seb
     
  8. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    ah man, I love this forum :)

    You guys helped a lot, I was imagining I would just drop off the face of the earth when realization hit (which in a way, I will be;)). I felt like I would lose everything I had ever known, but in reality I'll probably just lose unnecessary stuff that has been a hindrance anyway! Best not to worry about such things, there's just such an illogical fear of the unknown when it comes to a big shift in consciousness like this. Mooji illustrated it perfectly by saying we want to tie a rope around us and attach it to something before we go in, just in case we don't like what we see so we can pull ourselves out!

    I was watching WALL-E yesterday and one part was particularly similar. When the little cleaner robot jumps off the lighted path's he has been following for the first time to clean up after the free roaming wall-e, he closes his eyes, gets all riled up, then jump, beep! opens one eye, peeks around, does a little jig of happiness because he didn't explode or anything, then back to cleaning up after wall-e!
     
  9. Jeanna12

    Jeanna12 Member

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    keep plugging

    Keep going on and you will get what you need. I have been meditating
    for years and it always helps keep me calm. :)
     
  10. chris-da-fur

    chris-da-fur Member

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    Thank you Jeanna! I'm just taking it day by day, trying to stay as the observer of my mind rather than identifying with emotions and such, and as you said, just gunna keep plugging along!

    I had a run in with an "enemy" for the first time in awhile, and it was really interesting feeling my reaction to someone being really hostile for no reason. I could feel my ego physically present in a big way, which clued me into how far I have come since I was totally identified with it. Haven't felt it like that in awhile! My body was shaking a little bit actually, but I wasn't as caught up in the feelings, it was strange...

    Haha, I actually made a point of letting my Ego be totally present, kinda gave it some leash, so to speak (I know, I know, I'm very bad, but I couldn't resist) Needless to say, my mind was dwelling on the incident for hours afterward, replaying it over and over, but I was just observing it, like wow, this mind really has nothing better to do than dwell on this? I went home, threw on some headphones and played some LF, and it took me most of the 40 minutes to slow my mind down, but it helped a ton :) I want to find enemies more often, they help progress a lot!
     

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