Headless Way

[oneflewover]

Originally Posted by CharlieBrown

Thanks for your post, Graham, and I hope you didn't get offended by my "non believer" comments! I hope I'll reach that state you are talking about, one day...

No not at all. We can often accept things too readily. My initial reaction was the same as yours What is all this about ? Harding talked of valley and peak experiences when people get it. For most people who 'get it' ( but really youve already got it )its the valley experience but like any meditation (which of course it is) you keep repeating it and you start to climb out of the valley. You slide back occasionally too but the valley is also very beautiful

Graham _/\_

[oneflewover]

Here is a quote from Huang Po (Zen master 9th century)

This hat of mine is very small
But when i put it on (ie point) it covers the world (look no head .

Graham_/\_

[Edwin]

Originally Posted by oneflewover

Your daughter like all children 'get it' They all see who they really are. In fact for many children the reflection in the mirror is not them but their 'special friend' Children up to a certain age never count themselves, when asked how many people are say in a photograph. They simply dont have that self consciousness but we soon fix that, with the best of intentions
Graham _/\_

I don't think the seperation process is bad or wrong. It is the start of conciousness, part of growing up. The way I see it, our western culture thinks that adolescence is the last step, when in fact, it is the second to last step. When coming out of adolescence, the hormones responsible for all the emotional turmoil leave our body, but our self(ego)-centered view of the world remains that of an adolescant. But we receive no further help from those who have raised us. Figure it out for yourself from here on, good riddance, love you, bye bye ! Our society is based on adolescants, and the way they think and behave, because we stay an adolescant in our minds. We are missing the final stage of growing up. The problem is not early childhood, but late childhood.

Children, even tho their connection to Self is wonderfull and quite cute to see, are unconscious. After seperation, they are still unconscious, but now due to their ( not actual ) disconnection to Self. Because they become aware of feeling disconnected ( which actually they are not ) they start looking for a way back. This is how consciousness is born.
And the final step is called awakening, where one finds out that the disconnection is not real, and now, through your knowledge that we are always Self, you can consciously be aware of Self. So I think that the seperation process we go through when growing up is essential for the rise of consciousness.

But this is entirely the way I see it and I could be wrong what do you think ?

[oneflewover]

Originally Posted by Edwin

I don't think the seperation process is bad or wrong. It is the start of conciousness, part of growing up. The way I see it, our western culture thinks that adolescence is the last step, when in fact, it is the second to last step. When coming out of adolescence, the hormones responsible for all the emotional turmoil leave our body, but our self(ego)-centered view of the world remains that of an adolescant. But we receive no further help from those who have raised us. Figure it out for yourself from here on, good riddance, love you, bye bye ! Our society is based on adolescants, and the way they think and behave, because we stay an adolescant in our minds. We are missing the final stage of growing up. The problem is not early childhood, but late childhood.

Children, even tho their connection to Self is wonderfull and quite cute to see, are unconscious. After seperation, they are still unconscious, but now due to their ( not actual ) disconnection to Self. Because they become aware of feeling disconnected ( which actually they are not ) they start looking for a way back. This is how consciousness is born.
And the final step is called awakening, where one finds out that the disconnection is not real, and now, through your knowledge that we are always Self, you can consciously be aware of Self. So I think that the seperation process we go through when growing up is essential for the rise of consciousness.

But this is entirely the way I see it and I could be wrong what do you think ?

Hi Edwin

I agree with all you have said. I perhaps tried to say it all in too short a space. Yes all the stages are important and i missed out the adolescent stage or covered it only by saying. 'Of course to function in the world we have to experience separation '. I think in Hinduism these stages are recognised and indeed the final stage of life is a journey of rediscovery.

There has to be a move through all of the stages for the reasons you say but i do think in Western culture that the early childhood stage is rushed because of the demands of the culture (economy), with the spread of globalisation more and more cultures are likewise changing. However if you subscribe to the idea that not only that there is physical evolution but there is a spiritual one also then this may indeed be part of a speeding up of that process.There is now an urgency to evolve more quickly from the left brain way of thinking to a more right brained one. I believe our survival depends on it. I remain positive

Graham _/\_

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by CharlieBrown

Giles, you must have a special gift: I read the whole thing on the site, watched the video, did the thing, and it just seemed rubbish to me. Then I read your few lines, tried it again, and I can "perceive" something: I cannot say I now understand (that would be a lie), but I can perceive there is something there, something which I just don't manage to grasp - yet.

Once you start to create a framework of understanding for it, within your own beliefs and existing understanding, then you will start to grasp it.
The perceiving of that something is your awareness. You will not be able to see it just as an eye cannot look at itself, but you know it is there because you are the knowing.

Congratulations.

So, thanks for taking the time to trying to make me understand, I really appreciate it.

My pleasure. _/\_

>(if doing this naked, you can add a step in here (just joking!))

I have been living 4 years in the UK, and the thing I miss the most from there (apart from London's wonderful parks, which are green gems in the middle of the city), it's the British humor - thanks for reminding me of those days

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by oneflewover

Here is a quote from Huang Po (Zen master 9th century)

This hat of mine is very small
But when i put it on (ie point) it covers the world (look no head .

I like that.

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by oneflewover

Having read some your posts Giles i think youll find 'Science of the
First Person' particularly interesting.

Hi Graham,

Is this a book? an article? what? I can't seem to find it.

Hugs

Giles

[oneflewover]

Originally Posted by GilesC

Hi Graham,

Is this a book? an article? what? I can't seem to find it.

Hugs

Giles

Its a book Giles, ive just checked the website and it is no longer listed. Cant even find a copy on Amazon. Will let you have some more info as and when.

Graham_/\_

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by oneflewover

Its a book Giles, ive just checked the website and it is no longer listed. Cant even find a copy on Amazon. Will let you have some more info as and when.

Thanks Graham,

I've actually managed to find a second hand copy on abebooks.co.uk.

Hugs

Giles

[oneflewover]

Originally Posted by GilesC

Thanks Graham,

I've actually managed to find a second hand copy on abebooks.co.uk.

Hugs

Giles

Great! I couldnt find it at abebooks but i got this back from Richard Lang the Headless site creator.....

Hi Graham,

This book isn't in print. I just tried to get it printed, but I have to find a special printer since there's a paper tube built into it. So, when I find the right printer, we'll re-publish it. It's a great little book.
Best wishes,
Richard

Graham_/\_