Meditating on the Self

[GilesC]

Hi guys and gals,

This is unusual for me, starting a thread, as I'm usually on the replying end...

Anyway...

It has been suggested to me, on more than one occasion, that I should try meditating on the Self (usually in reply to me by someone who doesn't seem to agree with what I've said, though I'm sure it's just a language/terminology barrier ).

I've been contemplating this for a while and still cannot get what is actually meant by "meditating on the Self", so thought I'd ask in a seperate thread so as not to take other threads off-topic.

To me, the "Self" is that unchanging observer that observes the thoughts and everything. It's not something that can be observed (that would be like an eyeball looking at itself) or that has shape, colour, sound or any tangible physical attributes of any kind. It's just a concept or a label to desribe that which is ME (the real ME, not just this body, mind, thoughts etc. I'm attached to).

So, saying to "meditate on" something, to me, implies that you need to put your focus on it, but being unobservable, the Self is not something that can be meditated "on". When I meditate, typically I meditate on my mantra, as that is the tool that is just a part of the practice to get me to the meditative state... to BE my Self. I just can't see how it would be possible to meditate On the Self, unless I were to create a false concept in the mind for it first (which seems pointless).

Or, is that the point? Is it that, by seeking to meditate on the Self, we turn inwards or outwards or whatever and whichever way you like, to just BE connected with everything. To me though, the "seeking" part of that would require effort and focus, which is then where the mantra (or whatever tool we choose to use) comes in to assist us.

I'm not sure that it is actually possible to simply meditate On the Self. All I can do is BE the Self.

What are your thoughts on this?

Hugs

Giles

[TJH]

I agree Giles. The point of meditation is to lose the false self and gain the true self. I don't think you can do that by focusing on self. If you stay with your mantra you can accomplish that.

[Bryan555]

Giles, I think it's very hard for us to communicate about this question. First, because none of us can actually go inside anyone else's meditation, and experience it, first-hand. And, secondly, because our terminology and concepts are not terribly well-defined.

In my own terms, for instance, my meditation has been "focused on the Self" from the first day. I was taught to turn my attention inward, to the "third eye" area, and keep gently pulling it back there...when it inevitably tried to stray elsewhere.

Over time, I have begun to think of this process as "knocking on Heaven's Door", so to speak. My focus is on a place -- so it seems to me -- where my small "self" is connected to a much larger reality. That reality is either a larger "Self" or, more probably, a point at which we all connect to each other, connect to Life, capital-L.

I don't think that exactly answers your question, Giles. In a nutshell, I don't see the "Self" as purely an observer. It certainly CAN observe my life. But I believe it has a much deeper and larger function: the "Self" is the BIG me, which connects the "little me" to the Universe, and to everyone in it.

And I do think we can meditate on that. In fact, I know so.

[Uplift]

Gidday Giles, I think that one issue is being limited by what we, as people in a Western society, think we know about the mind, which is next to nothing. Savants display inexplicable abilities. As anyone who has worked with people with mental disabilities can attest to, it’s most often a guess at best what happens and why. But, that’s even a minor issue.

I think the real issue is assigning things to your Self, such as an eyeball not being able to look at an eyeball, dictating what God, or Self, or Spirit, Oneness, whatever you call it, can and can’t do. Yet, we also often proclaim the unlimited ability of Self. For instance, at risk of being never taken seriously again (maybe never was anyway) or being considered full of it, when this experience thing happened to me, I experienced and realised that it is possible to understand, hear, process or whatever, an unlimited amount of conversations at once. That was one of the things that happened. Yet, that wasn’t very important at that moment, because all it did was highlight Beingness as being the cause and reality of that, along with anything. So, I have no doubt that a truly, continually enlightened person, or being could think many things simultaneously with ease, whilst simultaneously, easily focusing on and experiencing Self.

But, the mental limit, the conditioning is the filter. Instantly we might ‘think’,
‘How can that be’... hence, ‘ye of little faith’.
From a simple perspective, if we are really serious about wanting Enlightenment, we would cover all bases. So we talk a lot about LOA being supposedly a ‘Law’. What you focus on, you become, so we say. Wait a minute, except if you focus on Self? Law? Too hard for God? White man speak with fork tongue (again)! It’s become a bit of a habit in our culture. Now that we terrorised the world (no we didn’t we were swashbuckling adventurers and pioneers) and stole many homes, we abhor terrorism? Treaties? ‘Love your neighbour, (see God everywhere)’ unless you can make a profit, ‘thou shall not kill’, except in the name of God, etc, etc, etc. We hate spam, unless it’s one we like?
Picture this, Pearly Gates, enter God... 'hey you, what about that mess back there on Mother earth, what gives?'
‘Errr, hey God, it wasn’t us, it’s those stinking feral cats and stuff running amock. You try killing them! Anyway, we had to address the deficit, and profitability would have suffered... give me a break, I meditated every day!' (Hey, I think I fooled him, looks like he’s buying it!)

Whilst you may think that’s just rambling, please correct me if I’ve fibbed. Our focus, our One pointedness, Truth, is nothing like a Buddha or Jesus, Ammachi, the children of Medjagorie, etc. We just want the Enlightenment, the experience, whilst we focus on everything but it. Like an Ab King Pro aficionado wanting the abs of world champion gymnast, just without all that stinking ###!!!, ***### exercise, and no, for the thousandth time, we don’t eat too much, it’s a hormone thing... wait a minute, here’s a program that says you can eat anything and eat all you like, its proven to work too, and check the abs on those models, it’s all they’ve ever done, just 30 secs a week, we want it!

But anyway, how can God, continually, totally, infinitely, omnisciently, unlimitedly focus on, and realise God, its impossible, not to mention boring.

Did you read that book about the unlimited Self, now there’s a goal worth pursuing... wait you don’t even have to pursue it, because we are wise, we know we are it... except when... see above.

I agree with Bryan. That would have been quicker! (at least I got out of focusing on my Meditation!)

[Uplift]

Gidday Giles, I think that one issue is being limited by what we, as people in a Western society, think we know about the mind, which is next to nothing. Savants display inexplicable abilities. As anyone who has worked with people with mental disabilities can attest to, it’s most often a guess at best what happens and why. But, that’s even a minor issue.

I think the real issue is assigning things to your Self, such as an eyeball not being able to look at an eyeball, dictating what God, or Self, or Spirit, Oneness, whatever you call it, can and can’t do. Yet, we also often proclaim the unlimited ability of Self. For instance, at risk of being never taken seriously again (maybe never was anyway) or being considered full of it, when this experience thing happened to me, I experienced and realised that it is possible to understand, hear, process or whatever, an unlimited amount of conversations at once. That was one of the things that happened. Yet, that wasn’t very important at that moment, because all it did was highlight Beingness as being the cause and reality of that, along with anything. So, I have no doubt that a truly, continually enlightened person, or being could think many things simultaneously with ease, whilst simultaneously, easily focusing on and experiencing Self.

But, the mental limit, the conditioning is the filter. Instantly we might ‘think’,
‘How can that be’... hence, ‘ye of little faith’.
From a simple perspective, if we are really serious about wanting Enlightenment, we would cover all bases. So we talk a lot about LOA being supposedly a ‘Law’. What you focus on, you become, so we say. Wait a minute, except if you focus on Self? Law? Too hard for God? White man speak with fork tongue (again)! It’s become a bit of a habit in our culture. Now that we terrorised the world (no we didn’t we were swashbuckling adventurers and pioneers) and stole many homes, we abhor terrorism? Treaties? ‘Love your neighbour, (see God everywhere)’ unless you can make a profit, ‘thou shall not kill’, except in the name of God, etc, etc, etc. We hate spam, unless it’s one we like?
Picture this, Pearly Gates, enter God... 'hey you, what about that mess back there on Mother earth, what gives?'
‘Errr, hey God, it wasn’t us, it’s those stinking feral cats and stuff running amock. You try killing them! Anyway, we had to address the deficit, and profitability would have suffered... give me a break, I meditated every day!' (Hey, I think I fooled him, looks like he’s buying it!)

Whilst you may think that’s just rambling, please correct me if I’ve fibbed. Our focus, our One pointedness, Truth, is nothing like a Buddha or Jesus, Ammachi, the children of Medjagorie, etc. We just want the Enlightenment, the experience, whilst we focus on everything but it. Like an Ab King Pro aficionado wanting the abs of world champion gymnast, just without all that stinking ###!!!, ***### exercise, and no, for the thousandth time, we don’t eat too much, it’s a hormone thing... wait a minute, here’s a program that says you can eat anything and eat all you like, its proven to work too, and check the abs on those models, it’s all they’ve ever done, just 30 secs a week, we want it!

But anyway, how can God, continually, totally, infinitely, omnisciently, unlimitedly focus on, and realise God, its impossible, not to mention boring.

Did you read that book about the unlimited Self, now there’s a goal worth pursuing... wait you don’t even have to pursue it, because we are wise, we know we are it... except when... see above.

I agree with Bryan. That would have been quicker! (at least I got out of focusing on my Meditation!)

[Hazelkay]

I usually would rather do than discuss, but I seem to be drawn in

I wonder where this self is that we could meditate on?

The body and everything in this material existence actually has no materiality. There is just combustion and vibration, whatever is focussed on is already gone. Thoughts are just passing energy, nothing stays the same, even for a microsecond.

This shimmering energy can be experienced, but generally we function in the world with the illusion of solid materiality and we have to deal with it as such, unless we retire to a mountaintop and just experience.

I have trouble with a concept of 'big self' and this 'big self' being connected - the image for me is still one of separate (though somehow 'spiritual'!) entities joining up.

For me, the experience is 'not self' rather than 'big self'. 'Big self' seems to be still clinging to this separate identity albeit universally connected.

Well, I had a go - hope someone understands what I'm trying to say!
peace and joy

[Panthau]

I guess thats a believe problem. I for myself, pray every day a few times. I go inside myself, and make a connection to that higher sorce within me. Thats the self for me, and you wouldnt believe what these prayers create in my life. Therefore, for me, i can meditate on the self. In your case, its different because you believe something different.

Isnt everything we perceive just an image of the truth? I guess by concentrating even on the menal picture, we get sooner or later to the truth behind it.

[olmate]

Hi Giles,

It may be just a way of practicing. For example, I have tried a practice that seeks to start on the physical body and then incrementally expand that awareness to infinity, eternity and deep time past. Perhaps to use a scientific analogy - from the point zero (big bang) to a (presumably) ever expanding universe. A similar context may also be to use love as the vehicle - love myself, love my family, love my neighbour, etc., etc.

So in this sense, it is just an alternative to the use of the mantra. Interestingly though, in the path I have chosen, the mantra represents a release into absolute "poverty" as the means of entering stillness and silence. But always as you say as a tool to reach that place.

Not sure if this makes sense...

Nothing but the best...

Olmate

[Karmoh]

Hi Giles,

This is an interesting query, with many twists and turns

The crux of the term “meditate on the self” from a personal point of view is an inquiry.
Who Am I?
When you go looking for the truth within “the self” you will only find nothing or the “no self”

This “no self” is liberation

Liberation has no point of reference. It has no center. This is why it can love fully, deeply, and freely all that is. No self simply watches. It notices. It sees all It realises that it is not any particular point of reference within its field of awareness. It is that which is looking at all.

If you can see this as the truth then meditation and seeking stops

Peace

[Michael David]

For me as Karmoh wrote Self is a meditation on Who am I? That is the process itself, the evolving depth of insight into Who am I? As a process or as a personal experience rather than a word description of some unknown and indescribable conceptual end point.

In addition to the experience of the meditation on Who am I? A second experience might be a meditation on What am I? Or even Where am I?

At some point you may find yourself up against a seemingly impenetrable wall. You have gone as far as you can go with the will.

Just sit and wait. Just maybe the wall will disolve.

Michael