Detachment

[Leonid]

Hello,

I understand the concept of "Detachment" in general but not fully understand the expression of the processes in real life (internally and externally).

In terms of desires and evolution it's even more complicated, because the human desire always rising to higher levels. In ones life (until certain age) and in general as a processes that moves this world to specific direction.

Can someone explain what it's the meaning of detachment from external and internal things? How can one know that he detached from something?

Thanks,
Leonid

[Ramai]

Hi Leonid,

If we look at the universe we see how things work. They arise, proceed and dissolve.
Nothing stays the same, in the original form.

Knowing that everything follows this metamorphic process and evolves according to cause and condition calms the mind.

Love,
Ramai

[Leonid]

Ramai thanks for your reply.

According to my life expirience and my studies nothing stay in the original form because:

- first we use recieve pleasure.
- then we suffer from the emptiness that stays after.
- then we fill sorrow, shame or regrat.
- we decide not to do it again (let's say smoking).
- the desire rise again after some time, and we fall again for the pleasure.
- in this stage we will need more pleasure then in the begginig.

This is very basic cycle of how many of us feel when they strugel with "bad" habbits or addictions.

Let's say I want to quite smoking, how can I detach myself from smoking?


I'm working on my fear of mediocrity, so I'm not fixing my typos, sorry about that.


Thanks alot,
Leonid

[Hazelkay]

Here's an attempt to put some worldly cloth around Ramai's lovely explanation.

Two people are lying on their backs looking up at the sky watching the clouds drift by and making their own pictures in the sky.

One says ' That one looks like an elephant'

'No' says the other, 'it looks like a giraffe'

'Don't be daft, there's the trunk'

Stupid, that's the neck of the giraffe'

While they are looking at each other and arguing, the cloud drifts into another shape altogether.

Further away another person is watching the clouds, appreciating each subjective picture forming above and equally appreciating its metamorphosis.

Our desires come and go like this - the desire could be primitive like a small cloud that looks like a sheep or (higher, grander, more spiritual) like a towered city with hidden depths, but the certainty is that they will both drift into a different shape and eventually disintegrate. We can observe our desires, however spiritual they seem, with this sort of detachment. If we begin to feel our view is, somehow, the right one - we are not detached.
peace and joy

[Hazelkay]

I just read your reply to Ramai after I posted my effort.

To translate to smoking - or any other addiction

To remain detached one can let go of the desire to ' be a better person' ie not to be addicted to this particular pleasure.

Accepting that this body/mind phenomenon takes and seems to need pleasure in this particular substance, observe what happens.

What sensations in the body are signalling the need for indulgence? catalogue them - observe how they intensify, diminish, change.

If indulgence occurs again observe the sensations in the body - how are they different, how do they intensify, diminish change.

If guilt, regret, shame occurs observe again in the same way.

Leave out the 'I' - observe as you would watch the clouds changing shape.
Hope this helps
peace and joy

[Leonid]

Hazelkay I understand more now, thank you.

So "let go" is the ability to non-interfere emotinaly with our thoughts and deisres.

Everyone have certain things that importent to them - family, money, status etc.

Eventually we all suffer from those things, but if you have family and you recieve pleasure from it, why observence release you from being attached to desires (permanent detachment)?

Thanks alot,
Leonid

[Hazelkay]

'permanent detachment'

this is also a desire!

Nothing in this world is permanent. Nothing the mind/body phenomenon can conceive of is permanent.

We can only observe the phenomenon of attachment with detached interest. Attachment is only a mind phenomenon - it is not permanently there - it needs a subject to be attached to. As the subject is also not permanent we can detachedly observe how ephemeral it all is.

Our detached interest is also not a permanent state - it comes and goes - sometimes we only recognise our attachments as they begin to fade.

Letting go is not a permanent state either - it comes and goes.

We need to recognise the desire we all have for things to be 'finished' Somehow there is a perfect state to be reached and how can 'I' reach it. 'I' can't. the perfect state is already there.
There actually is no 'I' If there was, where is it?

It's a fascinating journey - observe with fascination.
peace and joy
H

[Hazelkay]

read the thread - jump off the fence - into decisions of joy - there's some great words of wisdom there.

[GilesC]

Some great replies already, though if I may put my own...

Originally Posted by Leonid

Can someone explain what it's the meaning of detachment from external and internal things? How can one know that he detached from something?

Detachment is... when something that is in your present is no longer in your present, your mind/ego does not take hold of you and 'feel' that disappearance. e.g. as a sense of loss, anger, fear, wanting etc.

In truth, the true Self is not attached to anything. Only the mind/ego becomes attached to things and it is through the mind/ego that we experience our 'reality' (remember the mind/ego is a tool for the Self to use, but it often mistakenly the other way around). When we still the mind/ego to these attachements we do not lose 'reality' but we actually begin to see it with clarity. Detaching from things is often mistaken that we will become distant, lack love etc. etc. but that is a trick of the mind. Detachment is really the clearing of the dust from the minds perception of 'reality' (the light(bulb) is always there and shining, we just don't see it for the dust that settles on it).

Hugs

Giles

[Leonid]

Originally Posted by Hazelkay

read the thread - jump off the fence - into decisions of joy - there's some great words of wisdom there.

I'll, thanks alot.

Originally Posted by GilesC

Detachment is... when something that is in your present is no longer in your present, your mind/ego does not take hold of you and 'feel' that disappearance. e.g. as a sense of loss, anger, fear, wanting etc.

Great definition! very realistic.

When you don't have something you can't loose it.

The essence of the desire is lake of something (willing to recieve). As a metafor it's white page with black letters, those letters are the lake of the white color.

Why observation lead to the true Self?

What is the true Self if not another desire (just more subtle)?

Thanks,
Leonid