Trance instead of awareness

[Leonid]

Hello,

As I understand it from books and articles the main purpose of the meditation is to reach full and unlimited awareness, we achieve such state, literally by stopping our mind.

During my meditations instead of feeling awareness I enter to some sort of trance, that my mind take me to. Without noticing I lose my concentration point… again…and again… and again…

I concentrate on my breath and sometimes the tip of the nose, is there anything to do with it? Should I change the way I meditate?

Thanks,
Leonid

[GilesC]

You're not doing anything wrong, though your mind's intellectualizing of the concept is somewhat off-track a little.

You can't stop the mind. The mind is the mind and it is only the mind that contemplates that meditation means that it will stop, and this is why the mind does everything in it's power to attach to you and stop you from entering the state of awareness that we call meditation. The mind believes that it will cease to exist if we reach that meditative state, but it doesn't as we can always come back to the mind. The mind has a purpose and, if used correctly, in the present moment, it serves that purpose, but typically we end up being used by our mind rather than us using it, which is how it should be.

Not sure you're actually entering a trance. When you say you are losing your concentration point, is that because your mind has taken over and your focus has moved to thoughts, visions or some other such stimuli? Or are you saying that because you have lost the focus of the meditation practice such as your focus on the breath etc.? It is ok for the focus on the breath, mantra or whatever to go, it just depends where you end up when it does. If you end up attached to the mind and it's thoughts/visions etc., then you need to recognise this and bring yourself back to your meditation focus. If however, you end up just being aware of a complete awareness/silence (call it what you will) then you are in the meditative state, and it is usually the mind trying to tell you "oi! you've lost your focus" than brings us screaming back out of that state and back to the mind.

To the best of my knowledge, a trance involves some sort of vision or suchlike, so what is the state you feel you are at when you lose your focus on the breath or whatever?

Hugs

Giles

[Leonid]

Thanks a lot for the answer and the question

I find myself thinking about other things without I notice it, the moment I realize it, I automatically back to the breath.

But in some point, I can't concentrate any more, the moment I try to hold the breath my mind draw me to other thoughts, it's like I can't hold my concentration any more.

One of the writers described awareness as if you currently present in the current moment, with your body, I can't say I feel this way, how can I recognize "awareness"?

Thanks,
Leonid

[Edwin]

Originally Posted by Leonid

But in some point, I can't concentrate any more, the moment I try to hold the breath my mind draw me to other thoughts, it's like I can't hold my concentration any more.

Sounds like the perfect moment to end your meditation session.

Even tho meditation is relaxing, it does require some concentration, and especially when just starting with meditation, we tend to overdo our efforts, to concentrate a bit too hard.
And at a certain point, you will be worn down too much, and you need a break. You can try to force it, but it would be better to time the moment that this happens for a week, which could be after 15-20 minutes every day, and then keep that as a benchmark, and try to build to a longer session slowly over the coming weeks.

Over time 2 things will happen: You will be able to concentrate longer, and you will get the hang of using just enough concentration, without straining, resulting in a meditation session that you will feel better from, and you won't have the feeling of being woken up from a trance anymore.

[Leonid]

Do you think it's better for begginers first concentrate on external objects instead of internal?

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by Leonid

Do you think it's better for begginers first concentrate on external objects instead of internal?

Everybody finds a style of meditation to suit themselves.
Attaching to any "object" will keep the mind focused, but won't allow you to "let go" and enter a deep state of meditation. It is a form of meditation in itself, but not as deep and really a way to get to that state of complete awareness. That doesn't make it wrong though.

Have you considered using mantra based meditation? This is the form that Michael teaches in the free Discover Meditation CD's you can download from here, and also the same as the well known Transcendental Meditation technique.

Hugs

Giles

[Leonid]

Limitation in such early stage as mine probably will be a mistake, I'll give it a try, thanks a lot for your advices, you really helped me to focus.

Leonid.