Do any of you see things?

Thinker · August 31st, 2009, 16:32

At my meditation session last week, someone said that, when he stared intently at the floor, he could see faces. The session leader, who is not a master but is qualified to lead simple classes, said everyone sees that - sometimes, they see faces of angels and/or demons, other times, they see little things moving on the floor.

I noticed that too. I seem to see the ceiling moving, like a slow-moving mud flow as part of the mud bank moves faster than the rest, or, sometimes, I see things moving in the carpet. I thought this was just my poor eyesight (I have VERY poor eyesight), but, now, other people have said the same thing.

Can someone tell me what this is about?

GilesC · September 1st, 2009, 22:22

Hi Thinker,

I guess it depends on your beliefs and own understanding of these things.

You say the session leader is not a master, but a master of what do you refer? Are we not all masters and all teachers to each other?

Some people do see spirits, guides, faces in the "furniture" or whatever, and these things will mean different things to different people. It is not for one person to tell another what this means, but for the individual to understand from their own beliefs what these things are and how they relate to their own minds thoughts.

It is my own understanding that these are things of our own creation.

So, the question is... what do these things mean to you? Are they comforting? Are they fearful? What do you want to do with them?

Hugs

Giles

Thinker · September 2nd, 2009, 08:13

He's not a Zen master, so he only has permission to lead basic meditation exercises - don't ask me what that means.

But I need to have some context of what I'm seeing. Are those figments of my imagination or what?

CharlieBrown · September 2nd, 2009, 09:07

Originally Posted by Thinker

But I need to have some context of what I'm seeing. Are those figments of my imagination or what?

Highely likely, I guess... Probably your subconscious, telling you / trying to tell you something.

Edwin · September 2nd, 2009, 09:26

Originally Posted by CharlieBrown

Highely likely, I guess... Probably your subconscious, telling you / trying to tell you something.

And maybe not even that. I sometimes see vivid images of streets I do not know, and the picture in my mind are so clear that I can count the rooftiles ( or so it seems perhaps ). Pretty, but nothing more.

Treat them as you would treat any other thing that arises in your mind:
Allow it to come, allow it to go away again. There is nothing you have to "do" with it. Just allow it to be and allow it to go away again.

You are there to meditate. Mind will have a whole lot of tricks up it's sleave to make you notice things that you thought weren't there before, only to move your attention away from meditation. By simply allowing everything to come and go, you will not get attached to the image/thought/emotion, and you will meditate in a pleasant way.

Meditate every day !

GilesC · September 2nd, 2009, 11:15

Originally Posted by Thinker

He's not a Zen master, so he only has permission to lead basic meditation exercises - don't ask me what that means.

It means that he subscribes to a belief system or organisation that defines hierarchy for the purpose of ego/control.

We can all teach people to the level that we are at ourselves. To have restrictions placed on someone to say they can only teach up to a "basic" level, until they reach some sort of hierarchical label, is not truth. Why should person A have the right to tell person B what they can share with other people?

e.g. (simplified example)...
I know all the letters of the alphabet. Can I not teach someone else all the letters of the alphabet? Or do I need to be "qualified" as an English teacher before I can do that?

Hugs

Giles

seatrend8899 · September 2nd, 2009, 14:01

Hi Thinker,
Correct me if I am wrong but is it not unsual for basic meditation to be taught with the eyes open. Closing the eyes allows a natural progression of alpha waves but the main purpose is to assist a reduction in distractions.

Originally Posted by Thinker

At my meditation session last week, someone said that, when he stared intently at the floor, he could see faces. The session leader, who is not a master but is qualified to lead simple classes, said everyone sees that - sometimes, they see faces of angels and/or demons, other times, they see little things moving on the floor.

Can someone tell me what this is about?

To transfix ones gaze for an extended period of time would stress the optic nerves. Forcing a fixed focal view point I would think perhaps would cause the brain to "playback past visual chatter" that we would then "see" due to the stress that is being placed on this highly complex system being the brain/optic nerve connection.

just my 3 farthings

shine on

jim

Panthau · September 2nd, 2009, 14:17

Just think about how our eyes work... every few ms, when we change our fixed point of view, we are blind - we just dont know anything about it (until we read it

). When we stare at something, our little eye "rods" (dont know how they are called in english) get tired and dont send any signals anymore to the brain, so the sight may partically fade away into the color of the background.

Our reflection of light is nothing static, so its no wonder that you see wired things when staring long enough on something.

I cant describe it better in english, but theres plenty of arcticles on how our eyes work :-)

Pan

GilesC · September 2nd, 2009, 16:26

The eyes are made of Rods and Cones in English. If I recall correctly, the cones detects colour frequencies and the rods are just light sensitive (rods being used more when we are looking in the darkness, whereas cones used more in daylight).

Edwin · September 2nd, 2009, 17:20

Originally Posted by seatrend8899

Hi Thinker,
Correct me if I am wrong but is it not unsual for basic meditation to be taught with the eyes open. Closing the eyes allows a natural progression of alpha waves but the main purpose is to assist a reduction in distractions.

To transfix ones gaze for an extended period of time would stress the optic nerves. Forcing a fixed focal view point I would think perhaps would cause the brain to "playback past visual chatter" that we would then "see" due to the stress that is being placed on this highly complex system being the brain/optic nerve connection.

just my 3 farthings

shine on

jim

Jim, in Zen it is indeed quite common to meditate with the eyes open. Not wide open, but semi-open, up to a point where view gets a bit hazy. They usually look at a blank wall, without any distractions. Scientific research has shown that a relaxed gaze without focus actually induces deeper meditative states.

You can trust the Japanese to be throrough in their research