Complete Surrender.

[Jeb]

Great experience you have shared, Gus. When my boys were the age of your son I got into "pissing matches" with them, and wasn't smart enough to let them win once in a while. After all, I thought, they were my trees they were peeing on. In retrospect, I see that it made no difference. I wish I had had your wisdom back then! Maybe we need a "Parenting" thread here to help each other with kid raising problems!

[Bhavya]

Mitch, Gus, Edwin, Keith, and all of you, this is such a great thread about ego. Lately I've had a big reminder that awareness of ego is best when balanced by love, and Gus, your story about you and your son wrestling is such a great example. We have to have ego. Otherwise how would we have boundaries or accomplish anything in life? But ideally ego should be in the service of Love and compassion.

My spiritual teacher, Amma (Amma.org) said recently that Love and spiritual Wisdom are like two wings of a bird. With only one wing, a bird can't fly but with two, s/he can soar! Can we choose to see the good/God in everyone and everything? Be kind to ourselves when we stumble and be compassionate to others when they screw up?
I'm hoping so for our children's sake!

Wishing for peace on earth

Bhavya

[Montana Keith]

Hi Bhavya, Mitch, Gus, Edwin, Chris, Coenrad, Pollyanna (& the many other friends I'm meeting on this forum),


Thank you each for taking time to post here. What you are choosing to share continues to bless my life.

Well, here are some of my latest experiences.

Sunday, December 7, 2008: Once a month my friend Geoff and I meet by telephone for our “partnership focusing.” (Partnership Info) Geoff lives in Arkansas; I live in Utah. We each take turns for about 30 minutes providing presence as the one focusing journeys inward as they choose. This morning we met.

Following are some of my experiences while I focused with Geoff:

These are three of the limiting beliefs that I formed while growing up. At the time, I did not realize that I had an option in what I chose to believe.

Limiting Belief #1: Males are superior to females. God only grants authority to act in his name—his priesthood—to males and only to certain males who meet certain criteria.

Limiting Belief #2: The Black race is inferior.

Limiting Belief #3: “Some thing” outside myself knows what's best for me. I do not even know what I feel or how I should feel. This outside “some thing”--whether a parent or a teacher or a religious institution—does know. This belief reaches it's pinnacle in the belief that God is this ultimate outside “some thing.”

Over the last several years I have been experiencing a shift in perspective when it comes to the above three beliefs. Particularly in reference to “limiting belief #1,” the following are some significant milestones in this shift.

--Milestone #1: About three years I go, I discovered a book by Stewart Edward White entitled “The Betty Book.” (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301111.txt ) This book written by a man is the story of his wife Betty's development as a psychic in consciousness. In addition to “The Betty Book,” Mr. White with the assistance of his wife and others wrote several other books in this “Betty” series on books.

--Across the Unknown (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks05/0500091.txt)
--The Unobstructed Universe (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301131.txt)
--The Road I Know(http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301081.txt)
--The Stars Are Still There (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301091.txt)
--With Folded Wings (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301201.txt)

--Milestone #2: A little over a month ago, one of my Project Meditation Forum friends—Coenrad from South Africa—mentioned a female Christian mystic, Grace Cooke—whose writings I might be interested in.

Similar to the above Betty White, Grace was a psychic who received and shared valuable spiritual teachings. Her term for God of “Father Mother God” is resonating with me at this time. In the religious tradition in which I was raised God was a man who had a glorified male body. All prayers were to be addressed to “Heavenly Father” and only to him. And while the mythology of my religious tradition left open the possibility that there were also “Heavenly Mothers,” prayers were never to me addressed to these female deities. Prayers were only to be addressed to “Heavenly Father.” In essence, He was the one who would get our words to the divine feminine if, and only if, he felt she needed to hear.

--Milestone #3: Early this morning around 0400 AM, I awoke. I turned on my iPod Touch and went to the Project Meditation Forum. In reading the posts there, I read my dear friend Bhavya post that her spiritual teacher is Amma. Following the link she put in her post, I went to Amma's website. Amma is a living deity. Her name in Hindu means Mother. She is known for her loving motherly hugs which people line up in the thousands to receive.

After expressing these three “limiting beliefs” and these three perceptions shifting “milestones,” the following “mental vision” came to me as I was focusing with my friend Geoff.

It kind of feels like I'm a young boy on an old and slightly beat up bicycle that I'm just learning to ride. The training wheels have been removed, and I'm starting out on my own. I'm pretty wobbly and uncertain right now. I'm moving forward really slowly and swerving back and forth as I move ahead. “Logically,” my mind is telling me that this is impossible—that there is no way that this “unstable” bike should even be standing. If I listen to this “logical fear,” I slow down even more, and sure enough, the bike falls over and I crash to the ground. In fear, I stand with my legs straddling my bike and my feet firmly on the ground—stuck and unwilling to move ahead. But not now. Now in this moment, I'm moving forward determinedly with a good number of wobbly back and forth swerves. At first, I believe I'm all alone. I believe that it is all up to me to keep this “dang” bike upright and to continue to forge ahead. And then for some reason, I become aware that I'm not alone—that I've never been alone. To both sides I start to notice “spiritual guides and friends” who are running along beside me—who are ever present and ready to offer a “steadying hand” if I start to fall. My vision continues to expand. I start to notice that I'm surrounded by a whole flow of humanity moving forward. Some are on bikes like mine with the training wheels off for the first time. Others are still on tricycles and bicycles with training wheels still on. Some people are on roller skates and roller blades. It is like a grand celebration—like an old fashioned Fourth of July Parade. And then wonder of wonders, I sense riders on thin tired English racing bikes whizzing along with me to either side. And then all of us riders and all of our various riding conveyances start to dematerialize into “sparkles of light”--sparkles of light that are a rainbow of glorious colors that are all flowing together as a beautiful stream of Life of Light of Love.

[Jeb]

Keith- thanks for sharing. I also grew up with Limiting belief #2. I lived in an all-white suburb of Chicago for the first 17 years of my life. I spent the next ten years aboard a submarine in the US Navy - also a place where I had very little contact with black people. When I finally settled down, it was/is in a small town in Southwest Michigan, right across the river from another small town that is predominantly Black. Many of my clients are Black. I have had a Black legal assistant for the past two years.

What I have found out is that it is difficult to acclimate myself to the cultural differences between races. It was relatively easy for me to move from the "they all look alike" mentality to seeing/appreciating the differences between individuals. What was and still is to some extent most difficult for me is to accomodate and appreciate the differences between beliefs in my culture and those of the African-American community. Some of the differences are in the use of the language. That difference was especially hard for me to accomodate because my profession requires the use of what White America considers well structured English. Also, the African-American community is much more matriarchal that the White community. As a result, dealing with Black women is much different that dealing with White women.

I admit to still struggling with these issues. I have made many dear friends in the Black community, but my biases (prejudices?) still haunt me when I least expect it. I find it is much easier to avoid trying to understand the differences in culture than it is to confront them and accomodate those differences into my thinking.

When you get right down to it, all people are not the same. But all people are precious and worthy. I know this in my heart. But I'm 65 and still working on this one.

[HenrikSH]

Really glad to have found this thread, it truly does feel like more than a "coincidence".

I can relate to this issue 100%. I've been doing the exact same thing: Replacing destructive, non-aware ego with just as destructive egoical awareness of ego and becoming miserable about it. Remember Tolle's words: You CANNOT solve the problem of the ego by thinking because thinking ITSELF is the problem.

So, you have to ask yourself whom is doing the thinking even when trying to to "just be" and observe the thinker. Like Tolle explained, you need to be careful not to let the ego back in through the back door which is precisely what you and me have been doing. In my opinion, Tolle's "observe the observer" suggestion is wise but can in fact be harmful if overdone (much like I believe is the case with LoA). I really wish Tolle had pointed this out more as this is an obvious trap everybody's bound to fall in.

Presumably, you are over-comtemplating things - like me. These latest days around Christmas I've begun to realize just what a complete kind of accept Tolle is suggesting. Like already pointed out, this includes having to accept the fact you and everybody else are still with an ego, as well.

[Bhavya]

Originally Posted by HenrikSH

So, you have to ask yourself whom is doing the thinking even when trying to to "just be" and observe the thinker. Like Tolle explained, you need to be careful not to let the ego back in through the back door which is precisely what you and me have been doing. In my opinion, Tolle's "observe the observer" suggestion is wise but can in fact be harmful if overdone (much like I believe is the case with LoA). I really wish Tolle had pointed this out more as this is an obvious trap everybody's bound to fall in.

Hi Henrik
I'm really curious about what you mean when you say that observing the observer can be harmful if overdone. Could you elaborate?
Thanks
Bhavya

[Grey]

i think what is meant is that it can become an endlessly recursive loop. if i observe the observer, who is it that is observing the observer? and if i observe the one who is observing the observer, who is it that is observing the one that is observing the observer? it can always be taken back one level further and if you fail to ask who it is that is observing at any level you could become unconscious at that level and slip back into the mindset of not being aware. eventually you have to get beyond all observation and all observers to reach a logically consistent conclusion.

[bashmaki]

One thing I realized long ago; if things are seemingly complicated and difficult, look for a place ego has entered the picture. Ego loves to complicate simple processes. I think remebering who we are is relatively simple. The hard part seems to be remembering to remember. I can always tell when I am in awareness and mindful of what I am. As soon as I do it's gone!

gus

[Edwin]

I notice with myself that I have a tendency to over-complicate things.
Here, I is the ego.

The catch is to confuse thinking with awareness it seems:
At a certain point I notice the ego and/or painbody at work, but when the awareness steps in, like Gus said, I start to think: "that is just my ego talking, that is bad ( notice the judgement being the tell tale sign that this is still ego talking ) I have to stop thinking that way ".

The crazy loop here is that by thinking that the ego is bad and needs to stop, you are actually feeding it again through your painbody, because the ego makes you feel guilty by using it If I have trouble explaining it, it must be even more difficult to grasp for an unconcious mind.

There is a simple trick that everybody here masters.
Meditation !

Instead of starting to think when you notice your painbody or ego at work, try your normal meditation routine for a short time. You don't even need to close your eyes for it, simply do the mantra, or count the breath, or just breathe, for 3 or 4 times. You will instantly feel calmer, and while keeping the focus on your meditation, watch your painbody or ego.
If you can't "find" or "see" the ego, congratulations, you have succeeded it is allready gone !

[chris063]

Thanks Edwin, I like the idea of repeating a mantra when things start going a little awry. It gives a runaway mind something a bit more constructive to chew on