Project Meditation Community Forum

Go Back   Project Meditation Community Forum > Project Meditation Community > Meditation Chatter Box

Download Discover Meditation LifeFlow Meditation Technology - Free Sample Golden Threads
How to fast track your way to meditation success Project-Meditation Success Stories
FAQ LifeFlow Download Center
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 2nd, 2011, 10:58   #1 (permalink)
Panthau (Offline)
Member
 
Panthau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,052
Default Gamma tracks

Hi guys,

So who´s using the gamma tracks (nirvana, awaken) on a regular basis? Or the other way around, is someone using epsilon frequencies? What are your experiences?

Im using my mind machine nearly daily with a delta frequence and its great, but i thought about going deeper... or higher

Thanks,
Phil
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2011, 09:49   #2 (permalink)
Panthau (Offline)
Member
 
Panthau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,052
Default

No wonder no one´s answering... studies showed that theres no effective entrainment anymore below 3hz and above 22hz. Thats at least what ive read, so i wondered if anyone uses it, and if theres still a placebo effect.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2011, 14:48   #3 (permalink)
GilesC (Offline)
Member
 
GilesC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 1,498
Default

Hi Pan,

I don't necessarily use them on a regular basis, though I use them when I intuitively feel it right to.

I don't concern myself with which frequencies are which to be honest, so I'm not sure which one's you're referring to as 'epsilon' tracks....

Just looked at Michael's page...

Brainwave States

... and I see that the epsilon frequencies are not something included in any of the entrainment products from here, so I would have to say I've not used them.

No wonder no one´s answering... studies showed that theres no effective entrainment anymore below 3hz and above 22hz. Thats at least what ive read, so i wondered if anyone uses it, and if theres still a placebo effect.
Which studies are these? If that's true then it would imply that Michael's information is out of date. Any links so we can have a read?



Hugs

Giles
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2011, 17:24   #4 (permalink)
Panthau (Offline)
Member
 
Panthau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,052
Default

Claudius Nagel from mind-shop.de (from where i got my mind machine) told me so on the forum, and he´s one of the most molded persons regarding entrainment in the german speaking area. I asked him for links as im curious myself

Edit: It seems like these studies were made before the internet arose, so he only had two sources for his claims.

Toman, J.: Flicker Potential and the Alpha Rhythm in Man; Journal of Neurophysiology, 1941, Nr. 4: S. 51 - 61.

van der Tweel, L; Lunel, H.: Human Visual Responses to Sinusoidally Modulated Light; Encephalography and Clinical Neurophysiology, 1965, Nr. 18: S. 587 – 598.

Last edited by Panthau : October 3rd, 2011 at 17:54.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2011, 20:51   #5 (permalink)
GilesC (Offline)
Member
 
GilesC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 1,498
Default

Hmm, that's some old research by the sounds of it. I would guess that there are some more recent studies that have taken place since then. Perhaps Michael can provide some references if he reads this.

Hugs

Giles
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2011, 21:11   #6 (permalink)
pollyanna (Offline)
Super Moderator
 
pollyanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: France
Posts: 1,448
Default

Hi Pan,
Have been enjoying the weather with my grandchildren over the week-end and have had a busy day with work today so have only just seen your question.

Here’s something I posted, regarding the Nirvana Gamma track on the 11th of September. Not sure how long I had been using it then and it’s still in my player today I think I need to change as I never usually keep to one level for so long – I just really enjoy it:-

“For the longest time LF7 was one of my favourites and surprisingly to me, LF1 was for a while and definately Creative Flow (when working)

Then came Nirvana which I am using everyday for both meditating and working.

One of the most refined (for want of a better word) changes for me was to realise exactly when I had had just enough to eat and I have posted about this in the past. I think it happened a couple of years ago and think that I had meditated with all the LF tracks including Nirvana. It may sound silly or minor but it's actually wonderful to never eat a morsel too much. I was thrilled to sleep well again and letting go of supressed emotions felt like atlas being relieved of the weight of the world. Problem solving, not reacting were things I hoped and expected to happen, however the eating just enough was an unexpected surprise for me. I have never had huge meals, but it is so easy to have that bit too much at christmas etc. when there is an abundance of special treats.

With regard to the deeper levels, I can see the importance of spending time with each level and how each level builds a foundation for the next deeper one. I think very few long term and dedicated meditaters would be able to reach the lower states of consciousness without the well structured system of LifeFlow. Each of the levels have their own benefits - the chart in the brainwave state section, displays the delta states are the only ones where melatonin is released and much repair goes on within the body.”

Here’s a link to quite a new person who has used many big companies entrainment products, all kinds of Mind Machines over the last 16 years and says he is Blown Away with LifeFlow and thinking of selling his Mind Machines on ebay:-

Blown Away (so far)

Here’s something you may find interesting that Michael wrote in one of his recent “Good Life” issues:-

“Part of the answer for the effectiveness of the 40Hz frequency may be because it seems to influence the brain globally. By that I mean, when we say your "brain is entrained to 8Hz", for example, that means that the dominant frequency being produced by the brain is 8Hz. However, 8Hz is likely not the only frequency the brain is producing. It is the primary one, but there are probably splashes of other frequencies being naturally produced by the brain according to its own individual needs at that moment.

What you may not be aware of, and most people who use (and even produce) entrainment products are not, is that specific frequencies of waves tend to be localized and almost compartmentalized in specific areas of the brain. When you connect someone up to an EEG to measure their brainwaves you put sensors on several places on their scalp. That is because you are trying to get readings from the diverse parts of the brain. Beta waves registering in one area of the brain tell us something entirely different than those same Beta waves if they were present in a completely different area of the brain.

If, for example, you listen to a 10Hz track, but you do so with your eyes open so that your optic nerve is actively processing information, your overall brainwave entrainment will be 10Hz, but if you specifically measured that area near the back of your brain you would find that it would still be producing quantitatively more Beta waves because it would continue processing the information incoming from the eyes.

However, if you used a 40Hz track rather than a 10Hz track, you would find its entrainment effects would be more pronounced, even at the back of the brain with your eyes open. That 40Hz frequency has a more global entrainment effect.

By itself this is fascinating, but it gets even better. As you will be aware, I never mix entrainment frequencies within a track. I pick a single frequency as a primary and allow each person's brain to fill in the others according to its individual needs.

At 40Hz something very unusual occurs. There is a 40Hz entrainment effect that takes place, but additionally, there is a natural entrainment at levels of both Alpha and Theta that also takes place. The best way to describe it is to compare it to a harmonic interval in a music tone. If you take a "pure" pitch of C, for instance, and you listen to it intently for a bit you will start to notice that there are other, very subtle pitches inherent in that tone of C. You don't hear them at first. Your ear has to become acclimated to the C pitch, but they're in there and if you listen long enough in a focused way you will start hearing them. It isn't your imagination, those tones are harmonics and they really are in there.

In the same way, 40Hz appears to have some natural harmonics of its own and they fall mostly into the Alpha and Theta ranges. This is the one and only way I know of in which you can intentionally entrain to multiple frequencies at the same time. It isn't artificial and you're not forcing the brain to accept anything that isn't natural to it. I suspect it would be more accurate to say that the 40Hz frequency allows the brain to more readily entrain to its own natural harmonics, rather than that the 40Hz tone itself contains the harmonics.

This creates some very interesting possibilities. Because of this multi-entrainment aspect, a 40Hz track can be used for relaxation, meditation, creativity, study, stress reduction, and so forth equally well. Other frequencies tend to work best for more specific types of activities. The 40hz frequency is what you might call a "Jack of all trades".

I’m also a great believer in “horses for courses” and as long as you are experiencing the benefits and results, that’s what really matters

I wish you much peace and joy
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2011, 09:45   #7 (permalink)
Panthau (Offline)
Member
 
Panthau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,052
Default

Thanks Polly,

But besides subjective reviews and claims from the creator, theres not much (scientific) information it seems (yet). Gonna have to test it for myself, and keep on searching for scientific studys, as im really curious about that

Edit: This shows at least, that theres something happening in the brain... dont ask me if that could be called entrainment: http://www.doctorspreferredprograms....ronization.pdf

Last edited by Panthau : October 4th, 2011 at 09:58.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2011, 14:41   #8 (permalink)
GilesC (Offline)
Member
 
GilesC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 1,498
Default

Don't forget that such things come under many different labels, so you'll find a lot of scientific studies may appear under such things as "Sound remedies" or "Sound and mood" or "Music and mood", or more scientific terms such as "neuroacoustics" etc. These all relate to how different sounds and music can effect the brain of people or even the development of the brain in unborn children etc. which is all a form of brainwave entrainment.

Hugs

Giles
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2011, 16:12   #9 (permalink)
Panthau (Offline)
Member
 
Panthau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,052
Default

Yeah right, thanks for that explanation... makes sense.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on FacebookGoogle Bookmark this Post!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0 RC2

All times are GMT +3. The time now is 10:15.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8 Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Project Meditation - A Website Created By Mind and Body Research Institute LLC