1 question and 1 suggestion

[Domas]

My question is what is better discover meditation or LifeFlow and why? Sugesstion: if You use LifeFlow You can try to record Your own subliminal messages (I think it should be ~ -16db) that way You will not hear them. In this state of mind Your subsconcious mind accepts everything as true. It's just my friendly advise. P.S. How You maditate with LifeFlow? Do You observe Your thoughts or breathing? Thanks for answers.

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by Domas

My question is what is better discover meditation or LifeFlow and why?

Neither. You can't compare them.
Discover meditation is a course to teach you how to meditate.
Lifeflow is a brainwave entrainment programme that you can use whilst meditating or over speakers whilst your doing other things (not driving etc.) though it is said to have greater effect if used whilst meditating.

Sugesstion: if You use LifeFlow You can try to record Your own subliminal messages (I think it should be ~ -16db) that way You will not hear them. In this state of mind Your subsconcious mind accepts everything as true. It's just my friendly advise.

Not sure you are permitted to alter the lifeflow tracks as that's part of the terms and conditions of using them.

P.S. How You maditate with LifeFlow? Do You observe Your thoughts or breathing?

Personally, I don't aim to put my focus on anything, as to focus on something requires the mind and it is the mind that holds us away from the deep meditative state. I just let lifeflow play whilst I meditate using the mantra method.

Hugs

Giles

[Bryan555]

Originally Posted by GilesC

Personally, I don't aim to put my focus on anything, as to focus on something requires the mind and it is the mind that holds us away from the deep meditative state. I just let lifeflow play whilst I meditate using the mantra method.

Hugs

Giles

Hi Giles,

I've heard you make this point before, or something like it, and I'm confused by it. Isn't the mantra very obviously " a product of the mind"? I mean, if anything in the world is a "mental construct" -- to borrow another of your phrases -- surely the mantra is.

The breath, by contrast, is clearly NOT a product of the mind. So, if it's the mind which holds us away from deep meditation, why would we use one of its own products to escape. Rather than the breath?

Sorry, I can't follow the logic...

[GilesC]

No worries Bryan, I understand your confusion... so let me clarify...

Firstly, the breath. To meditate on the breath is usually performed by putting the focus on it, and for most people they mistakenly think about what it's doing... "iiiiinnnnnn".... "oooouuuuttttt" (or whatever) and this type of focus, ends up with the mind trying to control and often slow the breath down rather than just letting it flow naturally and simply observe it.

Now, the mantra. Yes, the mantra is a tool, and it starts as a construct of the mind, you are correct in that. So, in a sense, it's the same as using the breath, because we can construct it in mind and put all our focus on it.

So, I suppose I'm being somewhat judgemental, but that is from observation of how many do focus on the breath as an object and let their mind become attached to it rather than simply observing, whereas from experience, most who use a mantra (not something most aim for initially so it's often taught correctly) don't get attached to it and just observe it. Of course it varies from person to person.

In truth, either way can be used for meditation, but the key is in the person understanding the difference between attaching focus from the mind to the "object" compares to simply being aware of it.

From personal experience, observing the breath is something the mind is familiar with, and something it can become easily attached to, yet a mantra, especially one that has no meaning to us (so a mantra such as "hiram" rather than "I am One") is more easy to simply observe and be aware of rather than become attached to.

Of course, everybody finds the technique that suits themselves, and there are certainly proficient meditators out there who use breath or other things as their tool of meditation.

Hope that clarifies my understanding to you. If not, I'll try and clarify more later.

Hugs

Giles

[Bryan555]

Hi Giles...

Thanks for taking the time, as usual, to explain fully. As it happens, I was just watching some meditation instruction on video a couple days ago -- ( it's a kind of animation; I love their image of "cosmic energy" flowing into the body). Anyway, they specifically said not to use a mantra because "it's a product of the mind".

So, obviously, there is more than one school of thought on this. And all seem quite certain of their own method.

It seems to me that, in practice, our individual meditations are as unique as fingerprints. But, of course, there are practices which have been around for centuries. And I agree that beginners do indeed benefit from good instruction.

In my own case, I use the breath. Sometimes I get attached to it; often not; and sometimes forget it even exists. As my meditation deepens, I seem to care less-and-less about which of these occurs. I've come to realize there is no "bad" meditation, and have stopped trying to "perfect" my technique.

That's a wonderful feeling...the more so, because I know it has evolved from the meditation itself. My meditation is teaching me how to meditate.

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by Bryan555

Hi Giles...

Thanks for taking the time, as usual, to explain fully. As it happens, I was just watching some meditation instruction on video a couple days ago -- ( it's a kind of animation; I love their image of "cosmic energy" flowing into the body). Anyway, they specifically said not to use a mantra because "it's a product of the mind".

Well, if that's their take on it, then they'd better not practice meditation. To consider practicing meditation would be a product of the mind.

So, obviously, there is more than one school of thought on this. And all seem quite certain of their own method.

Yeah, there are those who think they are right, and those who think others are wrong, and those of us who just think they need to let go of ego and get on with meditating. hehe!

That's a wonderful feeling...the more so, because I know it has evolved from the meditation itself. My meditation is teaching me how to meditate.

Yes, we teach ourselves.

Hugs

Giles