Taking a step into the world of our Being

[Ta-tsu-wa]

Originally Posted by Edwin

About the chopping wood, carrying water...

Do you have this strange sensation as well when working, that everything is done by itself, that the body makes the right moves, while inside, deep inside it feels as if I am doing nothing?

Customers face :

My face :

Yet that was exactly how it felt to me. I have to mind my mouth a bit more I guess.

You should read a small book called "Zen in the Art of Archery". You would find it familiar. A westerner learned the Japanese art of archery as a form of Zen training. His master would constantly remind him to stop interfering with the process of aiming and shooting at the target and "let It" do the shooting. This was, of course, an incomprehensible statement to the man in the beginning. Was it not "he" who was holding and drawing the bow? Was it not "he" who was aiming at the target, controlling the breath and, ultimately, releasing the arrow? And who or what was this "It" that the Master spoke of? In the end he did indeed learn the art of archery and he found it to be very much as you described your experience. He had to get himself out of the way and allow something greater to perform the act of shooting. It felt as though he was only a spectator in an automatic process. There are those who would say this is simply a case of extreme neuro-muscular memory conditioning, but my own experience convinces me that far more than simple conditioning is taking place.

Here is a snippet of a post by Greg Bishop; a UFO/paranormal researcher and author. He is specifically addressing how personal opinions and conclusions are arrived at which make no sense to third parties that are looking on, but make perfectly good sense to the one who has gone through the process and experience of arriving at them. Though his subject matter has to do with UFOs and the paranormal, his insights are nicely applicable to our discussion of spiritual experiences.

"The problem is that the researcher has been delving into the issue for many years, and the twists of mind and personal revelations are almost impossible to explain to others who have not trodden the same path. This becomes even more difficult when people want a sound-bite version of how you come to your conclusions...

Since we are dealing with subjects that are not generally agreed upon as “real,” there is perhaps no good way to convince a reasonably intelligent and unbiased person that the anomalous is worthy of serious consideration and study. All it presents us with are questions, many of which may never be answered.

That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try, and remember that we should be looking for answers that satisfy our personal curiosity first. Issues of whether to share this publicly are up to our own discernment. Once someone goes public, they are automatically put in a position to defend themselves, which may derail the original inspiration and end up as an emotional issue or worse, a crusade."

As Greg points out, the journey is a personal one. What you choose to share, you share at the risk of having others challenging you to defend. Where personal experiences of spirituality are concerned it can be particularly sensitive having others adopt a skeptical or antagonistic attitude towards your experiences.

[Edwin]

Originally Posted by Ta-tsu-wa

You should read a small book called "Zen in the Art of Archery". You would find it familiar. A westerner learned the Japanese art of archery as a form of Zen training. His master would constantly remind him to stop interfering with the process of aiming and shooting at the target and "let It" do the shooting. This was, of course, an incomprehensible statement to the man in the beginning. Was it not "he" who was holding and drawing the bow? Was it not "he" who was aiming at the target, controlling the breath and, ultimately, releasing the arrow? And who or what was this "It" that the Master spoke of? In the end he did indeed learn the art of archery and he found it to be very much as you described your experience. He had to get himself out of the way and allow something greater to perform the act of shooting. It felt as though he was only a spectator in an automatic process. There are those who would say this is simply a case of extreme neuro-muscular memory conditioning, but my own experience convinces me that far more than simple conditioning is taking place.

I am currently experiencing the same with my Jiu-Jitsu lessons. Something in those martial arts... We even start and end the training sessions in Zazen...

As Greg points out, the journey is a personal one. What you choose to share, you share at the risk of having others challenging you to defend. Where personal experiences of spirituality are concerned it can be particularly sensitive having others adopt a skeptical or antagonistic attitude towards your experiences.

My experiences have turned rather useless once they have passed. They are not real anymore, just a memory. People are free to judge any past experience of mine. I won't be offended. People's opinion of me isn't that important for me either. It is all ego.

I seem to recognise the ego not only in myself but also in other people. In a workgroup in our church I even noticed the ego's of 2 people discussing doing their game. I was even able to manipulate their ego's/opinions. Not something I would like to mis-use tho. Since the topic wasn't all that important, it was fun to play with it. No harm done. But the "fight" ended and they all ended up agreeing with what I suggested. Just by deeply understanding how they thought about themselves.

I do feel a certain sadness, when looking at the news or hearing about a crime... If only all people were interested in self-realisation. The world could be a better place.

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by Edwin

I am currently experiencing the same with my Jiu-Jitsu lessons. Something in those martial arts... We even start and end the training sessions in Zazen...

Interesting. My self-healing and "getting into" all these complementary therapies and meditation etc. all started with me going to Tai Chi lessons at my gym (I wanted something to help me reduce the stress of work). Most people attending the class were just doing it as a relaxation thing and to strengthen their postures etc., but, for those who were interested (like myself ) the teacher was able to show us how the movements related to the actual martial arts aspect of Tai Chi and also introduced me to the "Chi" energy that was flowing. It was from there I researched and learnt Reiki, then became interested in therapies esp. Mind Therapies such as EFT, FreewayCER etc. and then that led to me wanting to understand more about the way the mind works in others, which of course meant I had to start the journey of understanding my own mind, which has led me to start understanding the "I" of who I am. As the need has arisen the opportunities have presented themselves. For example, the philosophy class came about due to a person handing me a flyer on the street while I was out shopping; it was just what I needed at that time.

My experiences have turned rather useless once they have passed. They are not real anymore, just a memory. People are free to judge any past experience of mine. I won't be offended. People's opinion of me isn't that important for me either. It is all ego.

Their opinions are "THEIR" opinions and belong to them. So you are right to not be offended.
A good example I was given to help recognise this type of thing was told to me something like this...
When you feel hatred of a person, recognise that there is also someone out there who loves that person. That person cannot be both love and hate, and therefore the love and hate is not that person themselves, but merely the perceptions of those who feel that love or hate. You can choose to hold onto those perceptions but, if they are causing you issue, it can only be you who lets go of or changes those perceptions, you cannot expect the other person to do it for you.

I seem to recognise the ego not only in myself but also in other people. In a workgroup in our church I even noticed the ego's of 2 people discussing doing their game.

This is something that I believe is common. As our awareness increases of our own True Self, and what is not truly us, we also come to recognise more what is not truth in other people. By recognising that the actions of others are not their true selves we can let such actions pass and become more connected (as One) with them. This is the natural state and takes no energy to do; we simply (I say simply but it can take practice) have to practice at recognising the effects our mind has on trying to control us and creating a dualistic "them and us" between us.

I was even able to manipulate their ego's/opinions. Not something I would like to mis-use tho. Since the topic wasn't all that important, it was fun to play with it. No harm done. But the "fight" ended and they all ended up agreeing with what I suggested. Just by deeply understanding how they thought about themselves.

Was it manipulating for your own benefit, or perhaps you were really teaching the truth without realising what you were doing. Sounds like it was the latter to me.

I do feel a certain sadness, when looking at the news or hearing about a crime... If only all people were interested in self-realisation. The world could be a better place.

<from my philosophy teacher>: "The wise tell us, if there were just six fully realized people in the world, then things would start to change for the better"

We can wish for the world being a better place, but we have to first look at ourselves and realise our true self. Then, by our True Self interacting with those around us, the truth will naturally spread. Of course there will be those who's minds are strong and will resist such truth, but we can only recognise the Self and let others recognise it in their own way. Worry or Sadness etc. are emotions; constructs of the mind to take us away from the present moment and to take us away from our Self. We could say that, by focusing such emotions on such situations that are not in our present moment, we feed those situations with energy and do nothing to improve them. That isn't to say we are making the situations worse, but we are wasting our energies and maybe even feeding such situations into our surroundings (gossip, scaremongering etc.). This is what the Media uses to feed it's own attachments. However, that's another whole topic in itself I feel.

Hugs

Giles

[Edwin]

Thanks for that Giles !

Nothing I can disagree on

[pollyanna]

Having had relatives for a week and catching up with work I am now catching up with the community.

What a very deep and interesting thread - I have really enjoyed reading everyone's comments which made me think of the following.

Have you ever witnessed yourself or another adult "having a tantrum" as I used to call it or over reacting to something? It just didn't seem right to me as I or my ego used to think

Using "having a tantrum like a little child" as an example is probably a very good description, however, when you understand why, you can understand the adult.

When emotions are supressed in childhood and we are not allowed to display them, it's like we stunt their growth and don't grow up in these particular areas. Almost as though we place a restrictive cover over them so we don't have to deal with them to keep us feeling safe.

It's difficult for me to explain but through meditating regularly and not looking for any specific results I have found that every now and again these supressed feelings have surfaced with a sensation or feeling in the body. Although it initially took a great deal of courage to accept and observe the physical feeling, by doing so it went away and in actual fact there was no reason for me to fear doing this simple exercise.

This is when the saying "The map is not the territory" is so very true. I believe now that parts of my ego or map of reality will always be improving and updating to serve me to constantly grow and improve myself to be of the best service I can be to my purpose.

When I was about 30, I went through my "searching years" as I call it and I very much relate to this being my spirit or true being was in desparate need of nourishment.

I am just simply enjoying this now amazing journey and often when I spend time with some people and animals I feel a deep sense of love and compassion for them as though God, someone or something is gazing at them through my eyes and I know they sense this. That's the only way I can describe it. I hope this makes some kind of sense and I wish you an abundance of peace and joy

[islovin]

Originally Posted by Bhavya

Hi Irene
Thanks for sharing.
I also find it helpful to hear about other people's experiences. It's 'satsang' which can be inspiring. Of course we can never duplicate someone else's experience, but we receive a vibration or taste that can be helpful.

Thanks Bhavya...



It worked ... Thanks Jim!!!

[islovin]

Originally Posted by pollyanna

When emotions are supressed in childhood and we are not allowed to display them, it's like we stunt their growth and don't grow up in these particular areas. Almost as though we place a restrictive cover over them so we don't have to deal with them to keep us feeling safe.

Hi Polly

I have been waiting for you to jump in on this thread.

I personally understand what you wrote first hand.

BTW Polly I want to say that many of your descriptions of living and being in the transcendent are inspiring to me and do help me to be more aware of my own experiences as they are happening.

Thank you for sharing your details.

Irene

[Edwin]

Originally Posted by Ta-tsu-wa

Subtle changes like these accumulate and to you they don't seem like changes at all. They creep up very gradually. To spot them you might have to look back at a few specific situations from your past (another of those wonderful tasks made possible by virtue of the fact that we have at our disposal the tools of Ego and the dualistic ability to differentiate between things, and aren't you glad you didn't actually try to annihilate that Ego!) and compare them to similar situations occurring more recently. When you do you suddenly see, "Oh, yes, I really have been evolving."

I have been re-reading this thread over and over the last couple of days.

This part kept popping into sight every time, because it describes the situation I am in.
Especially this one:

Subtle changes like these accumulate and to you they don't seem like changes at all. They creep up very gradually.

It is quite amazing how a small realisation a few weeks ago set a process into work that has not stopped ever since, even when it felt like it did.

I am convinced that there is more to let go of, more that I would have described in my seeker days as " something to explore".
But yet I know that the process is happening by itself in exactly the right pace. Every question that occurs is answered either by itself or by a seeming accidental situation/sentence/post by you guys..

How can this process be happening by itself, without effort, when I have been working to get here for 2 years, with a racing mind, fears, tensions...
And now all that is gone, or in the background somehow, and the process continues.



( personal message )Oh, btw, Ta-Tsu-Wa , I finally figured out your little riddle I think. There is a Cherokee legend of a man transformed into a white bird who is the bringer of sun,moon, stars, water and fire to the human race... ~R~ ?

BTW Did you know that your name in Japanese language means "Joined in Love" ? Let the people sing: hymn tunes in ... - Google Books

[Ta-tsu-wa]

Originally Posted by Edwin

There is a Cherokee legend of a man transformed into a white bird who is the bringer of sun,moon, stars, water and fire to the human race.

Native American stories and legends are intriguing though hardly riddles. There is another Cherokee tradition where every morning before sunrise the people would gather in the center of the village facing the east. They would hold their arms out, palms down low facing the ground. Then they would slowly raise their arms upwards until their hands were overhead, the whole while chanting, "Wayyyyy, oh, wayyyyy, oh, wayyyyy oh..." And when their hands were overhead they would drop them low once more and begin again. This would continue until the bottom edge of the sun's disk broke free of the Earth's horizon at which time they would give a loud shout, "Whoooooo!" They said they were helping to free the sun from its resting place so that it could take its position in the sky. And they believed without their help the sun would remain forever locked to, and unable to clear the horizon.

This is an ancient tradition. How long it goes back, no one knows, not even the tribal elders. All this time the Cherokee have been bringing the light of the sun to the world without anyone ever knowing they were responsible. One wonders why in such legends they wouldn't want to take credit. But many ancient stories are like that. It may be that some tasks are best done quietly in the background, eh?

What about you Vikings? Surely you guys have some old legends to share. The Finns have the Kalevala, the Danes have Beowulf. What are some of the old Norwegian legends?

[islovin]

Originally Posted by Edwin

Do you have this strange sensation as well when working, that everything is done by itself, that the body makes the right moves, while inside, deep inside it feels as if I am doing nothing ?

Edwin...I totally get this and know this feeling. I have felt it many, many times.

It doesn't just happen when I work...

Many things feel effortless...and many things feel as if I am meant to be at a certain place at a certain time to give or get information.

This seems to happen more and more with my meditation practice.

Thanks for sharing this.

Irene