Taking a step into the world of our Being

[Ta-tsu-wa]

Originally Posted by Edwin

I am such a beginner compared to your explanatory skills Ta-Tsu-Wa...

We're all beginners. The ideas Irene has touched on here are, I think, vitally important for everyone to understand. Our culture of mind has more or less conditioned us to believe that the intellect alone is king. We think whatever we can wrap our big old brains around we can master. That's just not the case.

All intellectual knowledge is a function of relativistic thinking which, as I alluded to earlier, is a wonderful and necessary thing but it's far from being the only game in town (though it would like you to believe it is.) Experiential knowledge transcends the process of gathering intellectual knowledge. To use a metaphor, the intellect works through things sequentially, in syllogistic fashion. It's a pathway of thoughts that are connected in logical sequence. You go from point A to point B and from point B to point C. If you want to get from point C to point F you must first travel to points D and E in that order.

But direct personal experience is a kind of shortcut to knowledge. If I have the right experience I can jump from point A right to point F without need of traveling to any of those other points in between, and when I get there point F will still make perfect sense to me. If I were to try skipping like this using the intellect it would result in complete chaos and confusion, not in understanding.

In matters of the spirit there are some points that are missing. In other words, you may start at point A but there is not point B or C to go to. There is only point D way up the road. This presents an insurmountable obstacle to the intellect. Without all the intervening points there is no way to get to point D. You're at a complete dead end.

In our culture of the mind we're taught that there MUST be a point B and C somewhere if we only look long and hard enough to find it. The culture of the mind convinces us we must keep flexing our intellectual muscles until we untie the Gordian Knot. But as Alexander the Great found, some knots cannot be untied. They must be cut. In the case of spiritual growth, the sword to cut the knot is the sword of direct, personal experience.

If we believe the culture of mind we will be locked into a habitual pattern of attempting to use the intellect to gain knowledge, even when it is a kind of knowledge the intellect is incapable of understanding. At some point we either seek out direct experience or we resign ourselves to perpetual frustration as the answers we seek remain always somewhere on the horizon. If I can just read enough books. If I can just have enough people tell me how they managed to get there. If I can just accumulate enough pieces of the puzzle I'll be able to fit them all together to form a whole.

These are the arguments of the culture of mind. Attractive as they are to our habituated ways of being, they give us only a partial view of the truth that poses as a whole truth. I can no more attain experiential knowledge by hearing about the experiences of others than I can satisfy my hunger and nourish my body by listening to others tell me what they ate for breakfast.

I appreciate Irene bringing these issues up because they're something I think we all need to dwell on periodically.

[islovin]

I have a story about what i just experienced just now when I went on my bike ride. I have to write it so it won't be here immediately. I think sharing this with you will not necessarily allow you to experience what I experienced but I think you will appreciate what I experienced. AND possibly hopefully learn and grow from it...

Here is why sharing experiences does work...we are all human and we are, well at least, most of us, from this planet.... lol.....we have all experienced the transcendant, whether we are aware of it or not. We have all experienced the beta, alpha, theta, delta and gamma levels of consciousness again whether we are aware of it or not....sharing our stories helps us to become aware of when we are experiencing the transcendent.

No I can not describe the transcendant to you but I can describe how I got there. AND any successful persons steps can be followed...

Eckhart Tolle wanted to kill himself...his story would have touched my heart I am sure of it...feeling compassion for another...as well as for ourselves is a big step towards BEING in the transcendent. At least, I think, that compassion, is a big part of it for me.

More to come....

Irene

[islovin]

I Bike for exercise. Today a friend of mine went with me on my bike ride. She is not as fit as I am and I had to slow my pace so that she could keep up with me. After we went around the park twice she needed to stop…it is 3 miles around and I barely broke a sweat. I stopped and told her it was ok if she wanted to rest, and that I would do the 3rd lap without her and that she could join up with me again for the 4th lap. She said, “ok.”, and I said, “I will be back in 15 min.”

I suddenly felt free because I could finally ride at my own pace. I had my headphones on and the song that was playing was “the music of the night” from phantom of the opera. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with this music but it is spellbinding and haunting and it builds in momentum. So off I went on my bike as fast as I could pedal, “the music of the night” was filling my head, the wind was in my face, coupled with the speed of my bike giving me a feeling of movement much faster than I was actually moving. I turned the bend. And there in front of me, I could see the outline of every leave on every tree, that was gently swaying along the tree lined path. I felt everything was in sync, the music, the swaying trees, the speed of my bike….and then to the left there was a large clearing which allowed me to see the incredible azure blue sky with its gorgeous puffy white clouds…. my view suddenly felt so expansive ….I felt every sensation throughout my entire body, mind and soul and I began to cry. I was crying because I was so happy and at peace and at one with everything in the universe. The entire rest of the lap left me filled with a heightened awareness. When I finally met up with my friend again, my face was stinging from my dried tears and I felt UNBELIEVABLE.


Now I am not a writer but I think you get my drift.


Also, i want to clarify that NO i don't want to follow someones footsteps who is on the path to self destruction. I don't believe we need to hit bottom in order to Transcend. But hearing peoples stories is always a learning, growing experience for me.

Thanks for listening and allowing me to share.

Irene

[seatrend8899]

let me add another......WOW to Ta tsu wa's "angle"



Irene the quote thing is quite cool. ................

1) On the post that you want to select section of text from (click the quote action button).

2) Then do a "copy" of all the text in that new window (it is now saved on your PC scratch pad).

3) Then navigate even to another thread and select action button "New reply" as usual.

4) In the reply text window "paste" content text that you have saved prior.

5) Carefully delete all other text sections leaving the quote text lines that you want displayed (be sure to leave the "starter" and "ending" tags intact as your "shink" the text body till you have the line or lines that you want).

6) "Test" the "look" of your post prior to commiting the post via action button "Preview post" (this will "demo" your "new learned" quote section)

7) Note that you, of course, add your post sentences before and after the special "quote" text characters.



hope this helps Irene


shine on

jim

[Ta-tsu-wa]

Originally Posted by islovin

...the wind was in my face, coupled with the speed of my bike giving me a feeling of movement much faster than I was actually moving. I turned the bend. And there in front of me, I could see the outline of every leave on every tree, that was gently swaying along the tree lined path. I felt everything was in sync, the music, the swaying trees, the speed of my bike….and then to the left there was a large clearing which allowed me to see the incredible azure blue sky with its gorgeous puffy white clouds…. my view suddenly felt so expansive ….I felt every sensation throughout my entire body, mind and soul and I began to cry. I was crying because I was so happy and at peace and at one with everything in the universe. The entire rest of the lap left me filled with a heightened awareness.

That's a wonderful experience, Irene. Thank you for sharing.

[Edwin]

Originally Posted by Ta-tsu-wa

In matters of the spirit there are some points that are missing. In other words, you may start at point A but there is not point B or C to go to. There is only point D way up the road. This presents an insurmountable obstacle to the intellect. Without all the intervening points there is no way to get to point D. You're at a complete dead end.

How true ! ( not just this quote, the entire post, but I wanted to specifically answer to this part ).

I have been knocking into that dead end for quite some time. There seemed to be a fence, and for some reason, the longer I kept banging into the fence, the more wonderful I imagined the other side had to be. Mystical.
Once I would be able to cross that fence, all my troubles would be over, I was convinced of that.
And about 4 weeks ago, thanks to some emails from a newfound friend who is an Advaita teacher, I realised that there was no fence. More shockingly, I had been in "point D" all that time, and imagined myself to be in "point A". Even the fence turned out to be imaginary.
One of the ways to understand this is self inquiry. This worked well for me. Instead of wondering what it is, try to find out what it isn't. The first time I actually made mind work for me instead of the other way around. When you have chipped away everything that you aren't, all that is left, has to be you. At that point it is as if a candle is lit in a part of the brain where it used to be dark. You "know" your true self to be there, and not with the intellect. To me it initially felt like a blind spot. Yet that blind spot was the source of my being. When I tried to find out it's size and shape, that was when I realised that the Self is shapeless, therefor endless. Left hemisphere shutdown... cannot compute...floating point error

And as far as all those wonderfull things I imagined are concerned... It's not what I expected. It's less amazing, not at all mystical. Just natural. Things are as they should be.
A lot of people seem to go through wonderfull experiences. I didn't, and I am glad. Those are just temporary phenomena. Great if you have them, but just as great when they have passed. I have had similar experiences before my "realisation" and after that phenomenon ended, I wanted desperately to return to it ( A brief moment... ) But you can never return to a phenomenon. It has passed. Never to return. What I failed to see at that time was that there was something underneath the experience that never changed, that was everpresent. I was just completely focused on the experience.

Thanks for adding your view to this thread Ta-Tsu-Wa.

[GilesC]

Originally Posted by Edwin

How true ! ( not just this quote, the entire post, but I wanted to specifically answer to this part ).

I have been knocking into that dead end for quite some time. There seemed to be a fence, and for some reason, the longer I kept banging into the fence, the more wonderful I imagined the other side had to be. Mystical.
Once I would be able to cross that fence, all my troubles would be over, I was convinced of that.

Reminds me of Quantum physics.
Electrons can go from one place to another without passing through any of the "space" inbetween.

Usually, people cannot accept such a concept and even debunk it as one of the "theories" of science that they have yet to explain. Yet, without this quantum principle, we wouldn't be as technologically advanced as we are. Did you know that something as simple as the memory card in your camera or phone (I know it's for Compact Flash, and I assume the same for the other types), relies on the above principle. The bits (0 or 1) stored in the memory of such devices is determined by which side of a barrier an electron sits. When we write to these devices they cause the electrons to jump instantaneously from one side of the barrier to the other. It doesn't jump "over" the barrier. It doesn't jump "through" the barrier. It simply disappears from one side and appears on the other. Now that's cool.

And about 4 weeks ago, thanks to some emails from a newfound friend who is an Advaita teacher, I realised that there was no fence. More shockingly, I had been in "point D" all that time, and imagined myself to be in "point A". Even the fence turned out to be imaginary.

Or, more succinctly, "point A" is "point D", simply that the ego attaches to something and creates the dualistic belief of "other".
(and now to replace some of my lost post...)
The Ego in Vedic philosophy (the teachings of Advaita (a.k.a Not Two)) is known in sanskrit as Ahankara. Ahan (or Aham when used as a word alone) is the True Self or the unchanging observer that we all are. Kara is anything in the "creation" (physical or abstract/conceptual). When Ahan becomes attached to anything in the creation we get AhanKara, the ego; a mistaken belief that something belongs to us (even if that is as subtle as a perception or as obvious as some material belonging) and this creates the dualistic belief of the self (small S) being something seperate from "other".

One of the ways to understand this is self inquiry. This worked well for me. Instead of wondering what it is, try to find out what it isn't.

Indeed. Instead of looking for what you are, simply let go of what you are not.
e.g. You are not your emotions as you can observe these arise within you and you can observe them going again, but you are still the same observer after as you were before; you are not your memories or thoughts as, likewise you are the same observer after they arise as you were before them and you observed them rising up. And you are not your body as you are still observing even as your body changes or even if something drastic happened such as losing a limb; you don't lose that observer. The observer is unchanging and always present. This is your true Self (big S).

Letting go of what we are not is not a case of saying, well I don't need my thoughts or memories so I'll discard them, I don't need my body so I'll get rid of it etc. as this is not the purpose and we have a need for these things as tools in the physical universe we live in. The idea of "letting go" is to become aware that these things are not our True Self, so that, for example, when an emotion does arise within us, we can choose to stop our mind/ego attaching to it and bring ourselves back to the present moment and deal with the situation without letting such things get in the way. Awareness is the key.

The first time I actually made mind work for me instead of the other way around. When you have chipped away everything that you aren't, all that is left, has to be you. At that point it is as if a candle is lit in a part of the brain where it used to be dark. You "know" your true self to be there, and not with the intellect. To me it initially felt like a blind spot. Yet that blind spot was the source of my being. When I tried to find out it's size and shape, that was when I realised that the Self is shapeless, therefor endless. Left hemisphere shutdown... cannot compute...floating point error

LOL! Indeed this is so. There is often "fear" that prevents us letting go to the extend of BEing our True Self, but we do find, with meditation, that we experience this more and more. It is a little bit of a misconception (conception = conceived by the mind, therefore it is not truth by it's very nature) that by "going inside" when we meditate we are "looking for something" smaller within ourselves. The thing is, when you really experience it, you realise that it's a bit like the Tardis on Dr. Who., you step inside and suddenly the whole Universe is you, you are the universe. There is no words that can truly describe it because it is everything and nothing all in one; the "Emptiness" that Buddhism talks of, but which is anything but empty.

And as far as all those wonderfull things I imagined are concerned... It's not what I expected. It's less amazing, not at all mystical. Just natural. Things are as they should be.

This is the joy of the Practical Philosophy class that I attend that teaches along the lines of Advaita. It isn't just theoretical philosophy, it is something we can put into practice each week and discuss in the classes. Only through first hand experience can we know it to be true. It is not something that can be bestowed upon us as we already have it naturally in (as an aspect of rather) our True Self.

This is a most wonderful thread and I'm thoroughly enjoying everyones contribution.

Hugs

Giles

[Bhavya]

Originally Posted by islovin

I suddenly felt free because I could finally ride at my own pace. I had my headphones on and the song that was playing was “the music of the night” from phantom of the opera. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with this music but it is spellbinding and haunting and it builds in momentum. So off I went on my bike as fast as I could pedal, “the music of the night” was filling my head, the wind was in my face, coupled with the speed of my bike giving me a feeling of movement much faster than I was actually moving. I turned the bend. And there in front of me, I could see the outline of every leave on every tree, that was gently swaying along the tree lined path. I felt everything was in sync, the music, the swaying trees, the speed of my bike….and then to the left there was a large clearing which allowed me to see the incredible azure blue sky with its gorgeous puffy white clouds…. my view suddenly felt so expansive ….I felt every sensation throughout my entire body, mind and soul and I began to cry. I was crying because I was so happy and at peace and at one with everything in the universe. The entire rest of the lap left me filled with a heightened awareness. When I finally met up with my friend again, my face was stinging from my dried tears and I felt UNBELIEVABLE.

Hi Irene
Thanks for sharing.
I also find it helpful to hear about other people's experiences. It's 'satsang' which can be inspiring. Of course we can never duplicate someone else's experience, but we receive a vibration or taste that can be helpful.

I would say, though, that Eckhart Tolle's spontaneous awakening was unexplainable. Like others who've experienced similar events, he was transported beyond words and stayed in a non-verbal state for a long time afterward. Same thing with Byron Katie and the notable Ramana Maharshi to mention a few. We can only receive what they're able to give us even though we might want more. (I, for one, had always hoped to get a magic potion but alas, it hasn't come! )

I've been fascinated ever since my late teens with the spiritual journey in all its forms and I've read the lives of those who've attained great realisations: Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Amma (Mata Amritananda Mayi), many Christian saints, etc. It's rich reading. What's even better is to be in the presence of a great saint like Amma. I've learned so much from her, just watching that generous outflowing grace. There is something that gets transmitted. Indescribable, and undoubtedly felt in different ways by different people.

But nothing, of course, takes the place of spiritual practice in all its forms.

Every morning I ask for guidance and help in this journeying towards Home: to be able to give to others and to receive that which I need to stay in a pure and permanent state of Presence. We are That, but most of us don't know it on an ongoing basis.

I like what the I Ching says: Perseverance furthers!

Wishing you joy on your journey

Bhavya

[Ta-tsu-wa]

Originally Posted by Edwin

...that was when I realised that the Self is shapeless, therefor endless. Left hemisphere shutdown... cannot compute...floating point error

And as far as all those wonderfull things I imagined are concerned... It's not what I expected. It's less amazing, not at all mystical. Just natural. Things are as they should be.

You give a very good description of the process that koans take you through in Zen. They're designed to be incomprehensible to the left hemisphere or even antagonistic to it. The koan takes the form of something that seems as if it "should" be amenable to inquiry from the left hemisphere in that it is a puzzle, riddle, or statement ostensibly meant to be "figured out," and yet it defies all attempts at a logical solution. Figuring out puzzles is the forte' of the left brain. Though the koan takes the outward form of a puzzle, its inner content is such that it cannot be "figured out".

Sure, sometimes you can draw a logical inference here or there, but overall the koan remains an enigma. When the left brain has worked itself to the point of exhaustion over the problem it falters and its grip on us momentarily weakens. A crack in our logical center opens itself and a glimmer of the light of transcendent knowing slips through. This is Satori or the "Aha!" phenomenon.

Zen is only one of many traditions that actively cultivates this experience. What you expressed is essentially the same end arrived at by a process with a slightly different methodology.

It's funny that you yourself don't experience this process as being "mystical", but to those around you looking on and watching it might seem so to them. They'll ask themselves what could possibly account for the changes in Edwin? Why do things not bother him as they once did? Why doesn't he get sick as much anymore or, if he does get sick, why is it that he isn't acting like the typical sick person? He seems to take it all in stride. Where did his temper go? Why don't annoying people annoy him?

Subtle changes like these accumulate and to you they don't seem like changes at all. They creep up very gradually. To spot them you might have to look back at a few specific situations from your past (another of those wonderful tasks made possible by virtue of the fact that we have at our disposal the tools of Ego and the dualistic ability to differentiate between things, and aren't you glad you didn't actually try to annihilate that Ego!) and compare them to similar situations occurring more recently. When you do you suddenly see, "Oh, yes, I really have been evolving."

The genuinely puzzling part of it will be that you can see that hypothetical point A I mentioned, and you observe that you're now standing on point D, yet you find few if any points in between that you travelled through to get there. It will be difficult if not impossible, even for you, to detect a logical sequence leading from where you were to where you are. The difference is you'll simply accept that things are as they are while others will insist on trying to logically figure it out and failing this it will seem to them that something "mystical" has occurred. This is Giles' phantom virtual particle, existing as pure Quantum potential until it manifests into the phenomenal world, then vanishes back into potential until it manifests again somewhere/somewhen else.

Chop wood, Edwin, carry water.

[Edwin]

Crap Ta-Tsu-Wa that almost made me cry.

It was like you were talking face to face to me, and as if we were life long friends ( which we are actually at a higher level... or is it lower ).

About the chopping wood, carrying water...

Do you have this strange sensation as well when working, that everything is done by itself, that the body makes the right moves, while inside, deep inside it feels as if I am doing nothing ? I was making a series of keys today for a customer, and he said: Wow you are working fast !
and without thinking I answered " I don't have to do anything, it works by itself "

Customers face :

My face :

Yet that was exactly how it felt to me. I have to mind my mouth a bit more I guess.

Same with a phone call I got this afternoon from one of my suppliers, who wanted to get paid soon. Normally, a month or so ago, I would have been pumped with stress anyway, and an event like this would leave me trembling.

Now the stress is gone anyway, I go about my day with minor nudges that seem to point me in the right directions, but other than that, no stress.
I was able to talk to the supplier in a very calm way, because of the ... for lack of a better word "stillness" inside. I asked him what he would consider a reasonable payback arrangement, and suddenly he was extremely considerate and made me an offer that seemed almost bad for him. Of course I promised him that any money that I would make in between would come his way aside the payments he suggested, and both of us seemed happy at the end of the call. Normally at the end of a call like this, I would have been stressed out for half an hour, but now I just went about my normal business with just a faint feeling of happiness that I had had such a pleasant talk

You are right, something inside me has changed.

And I have no idea how I got here, you are right !

Oh, Giles, I loved your post as well